Style / genre corrections
Printed From: JazzMusicArchives.com
Category: Site News, Newbies, Help and Improvements
Forum Name: Report errors & omissions here
Forum Description: Seen a mistake in a band bio etc then please tell us
URL: http://www.JazzMusicArchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=29773
Printed Date: 26 Dec 2024 at 12:53pm
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Topic: Style / genre corrections
Posted By: Mssr_Renard
Subject: Style / genre corrections
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2023 at 6:44am
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Let's start a thread for this type of correction. McCoy Tyner - Passion Dance is filed under Fusion, but should be post-bop: https://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/album/mccoy-tyner/passion-dance(live) https://www.discogs.com/release/2341909-McCoy-Tyner-Passion-Dance
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Replies:
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2023 at 7:47am
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Please, everyone, limit this thread to albums you plan on reviewing. Also, please list one album at a time, no long lists please. We are already aware of, and working on, all of the albums that were added incorrectly during the first year of the site.
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Posted By: js
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2023 at 8:01am
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Mssr_Renard wrote:Posted By: Mssr_Renard
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2023 at 12:37pm
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I will only use this thread for the albums I want to review. In fact that's the best way to be sure of a certain style/genre. So don't ecpect more than 2 or 3 suggestions per week. Thank you. |
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2023 at 12:53pm
| Of course all this applies to everyone on the site, also, please list one album at a time. We are currently going through artists discogs who were added in the first year and fixing their tags, which is a lot of albums. Its slow work so we already have our hands full. |
Posted By: Mssr_Renard
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2023 at 11:57pm
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I can understand the task at hand is huge. Even at discogs there are a lot of mass-corrections necessary. Maybe I can help out eventually? |
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2023 at 7:28am
Maybe so. 
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Posted By: Mssr_Renard
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 4:01am
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Can the two albums by The Awakening be changed to Soul Jazz. They are now tagged as fusion: http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/album/the-awakening/hear-sense-and-feel |
Posted By: Mssr_Renard
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 6:14am
| Also, the three Doug Carn albums, recorded for Black Jazz Records can best be tagged as Soul Jazz. Thank you. |
Posted By: Mssr_Renard
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 6:14am
| http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/artist/abdul-rahim-ibrahim-doug-carn/?ac=doug%20ca |
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 7:37am
The album you provided is not soul jazz. I've been playing soul jazz professionally at clubs in San Francisco and Memphis for about 30 years now. I know what soul jazz is and this is not it. This album is a mix of fusion and post bop, fusion is probably the best tag for it. Two things determine genre: rhythm and harmonic content. As for the other albums, please only list one at a time, we will check it out and give you an eval and then you can list another, thanks.
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Posted By: Mssr_Renard
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 9:55am
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The sleevenotes say it's souljazz, as does the discogs-community. https://www.discogs.com/release/15834669-The-Awakening-Hear-Sense-And-Feel But I just wanted to help. It definately is not fusion. Modal jazz or spiritual jazz would fit, but this website uses neither of those tags. As for the Carn-albums, I wanted to review them, but now I don't know wich genre it is anymore. They have some similarities to Max Roach and Abbey Lincoln. |
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 10:21am
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Discogs has good discog info but their genre tags are hit and miss, same with allmusic. There are one or two cuts on the album that are sort of soul jazz, but generally soul jazz refers to artists like Groove Holmes, Jimmy McGrifff, Stanley Turrentine, Eddie Harris, Jack McDuff etc. This album is not a part of that scene t all.
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Posted By: Mssr_Renard
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 10:26am
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I read some about Souljazz, and must admit you are right. Apparently I know nothing about the subgenre, although I own some Turrentine, Larry Young and Crusaders. Fusion on the other hand is electric/amplified, like Santana and Return to Forever. The Awakening has some similaries to Joe Henderson, Lonnie Liston Smith and could be tagged as modal or spiritual jazz. I noticed that I had too much fusion in my pie-chart, and want less. But is more my problem. Thanks fo reading, I'll have to accept that those Black Jazz albums are fusion on this site. |
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 10:33am
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Fusion does not mean electric instruments. You can play ragtime on a synthesizer and you can play fusion on acoustic instruments. Jazz (Post bop, swing, bop, hard bop etc) has swing rhythm and no backbeat. The harmonies are 7th chords or more extended harmonies. Fusion ( jazz mixed with RnB, rock, funk etc) tends to have straight rhythms, (although the soloists may or may not still swing) and there is a backbeat associated with rock, RnB, funk etc. Fusion may use simple triadic harmonies or the more extended harmonies of jazz.
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Posted By: Mssr_Renard
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 10:57am
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Thank you. I found out that a lot books and encyclopdia have different views. The Penguin Guide for example despises fusion, because of it's overuse of electric instruments. I agree with the rhythm. I am a drummer and I can tell when a beat is straight forward or not. A lot of modal jazz (is that even a genre?) also uses straight forward rhythms. I never had college in music, so all I know is from the books I have and reading sleevenotes. |
Posted By: Mssr_Renard
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 11:00am
| Anyway, I am learning every day something new. I will dig into soul-jazz. Something tells me I will like that subgenre. |
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 11:05am
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Modal means that the music is in one key (or mode) instead of following complex chord changes as you get in bebop. Modal does not work as a genre because lots of music is modal, for instance most blues, RnB and rock is modal. In jazz, modal jazz was a reaction against bebop, soloists didn't want to deal with rapidly changing chord progressions that require many different scales, instead, they wanted to stretch out on one scale or mode. In the case of modal jazz and spiritual jazz, its the rhythm that will place it in fusion or post bop. What is difficult is that a lot of modal and spiritual jazz is often right in between fusion and post bop, its hard to pick which one.
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Posted By: Mssr_Renard
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 11:32am
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Maybe The Awakening can be put in postbop-genre? If there's one thing I'm learning is that everyone is using genres an styles as they please. And I think the musicians couldn't care less. They just do what they do. |
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 11:37am
| A lot of today's jazz is just a melting pot of styles that really has no particular genre. |
Posted By: Mssr_Renard
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 12:49pm
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My guess is that this not souljazz but hardbop: http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/album/yusef-lateef/gong(compilation) I'm playing it now, it is a twofer compiling Sounds of Nature and Prayer to the East. The recordings are from from 1957/1958 |
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 5:07pm
| Both of the albums are more or less hard bop with typical Yusef type eclectic extras, so the comp is hard bop too. |
Posted By: Mssr_Renard
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 11:23pm
| Thank you. Yusef is almosta genre by itself. As is Roland Rahsaan Kirk. But hardbop is the best thing of course. |
Posted By: Mssr_Renard
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 11:41pm
| Is it a lot of trouble to chsnge the genre of all Yusef's albums up to 2966 to Hard Bop? Is it even possible that Post Bop existed pre-1966? |
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2023 at 7:25am
| ^ Yusef is next on my list for a total overhaul, just be patient, got a few other things to do. |
Posted By: Mssr_Renard
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2023 at 12:22pm
| No problem. Thank you. In the meantime I have some twofers to add to the database. |
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2023 at 1:11pm
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Posted By: Mssr_Renard
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2023 at 1:18pm
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By mistake I added a twofer in the albumsection. But I can't edit it. Also I saw that Gong is mistakenly from 1957 but should be from 1978. |
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2023 at 2:11pm
| Give me a link to the album and I will fix it. |
Posted By: Mssr_Renard
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2023 at 11:42pm
| I see you already fixed it. Thsnk you. |
Posted By: snobb
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2023 at 11:59pm
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Posted By: Mssr_Renard
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2023 at 2:36am
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I am listening to Roy Brooks' Understanding-album and it is tagged as hardbop. My best guess is freejazz, avant jazz or postbop. The Bandcamp-page tags it as freejazz: http://roybrooksband.bandcamp.com/album/understanding" rel="nofollow - http://roybrooksband.bandcamp.com/album/understanding
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Posted By: js
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2023 at 7:22am
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Posted By: Mssr_Renard
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2023 at 8:05am
| Okay, we'll keep it that way. I was just thown of, because of the tag the label uses on Bandcamp |
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2023 at 3:22pm
| I'm moving Oceanic Suites to Post Bop, Its about half post bop and half fusion with a good dose of African fusion too. Those three different tags would all be good for this album, but post bop is probably the best. |
Posted By: Mssr_Renard
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2023 at 12:21am
| Okay, thank you. It sure is an eclectic album. |
Posted By: Mssr_Renard
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2023 at 7:27am
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Both of Makaya McCraven's latest albums are tagged as electronic/hip hop but they're not. Deciphering the message is Hard Bop but in a modern styling. They use old samples with newly recorded instruments. My guess is acid jazz or nu jazz. In These Times is his latest albums wich is probably something like nu jazz or modern fusion. They're are al kinds of genres included from rock to jazz, to fusion to acid jazz to spacerock. So some kind of eclectic fusion -tag will suffice, i Guess. What do you guys think? http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/album/makaya-mccraven/deciphering-the-message" rel="nofollow - http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/album/makaya-mccraven/deciphering-the-message http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/album/makaya-mccraven/in-these-times" rel="nofollow - http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/album/makaya-mccraven/in-these-times
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Posted By: js
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2023 at 7:52am
| ^ Thanks, we will check them out. Off to the grocery store right now. |
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2023 at 9:57am
| Both moved to Nu Jazz. Eclectic Fusion is for stuff thats more gnarly and intense, avant-garde fusion, punky stuff, etc. |
Posted By: Mssr_Renard
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2023 at 10:32am
| Nu Jazz is just fine. Review will follow probably. Thank you. |