improvement on be-bop's definition?

just a thought, to explain the background of its birth... just a few random thoughts about a thread in Prog Ears

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but small-ensemble jazz (including bop) wasn't as much of an intentional stylistic shift as it was simple wartime expediency.

Chronic manpower shortages for EVERYTHING meant the big band leaders were having a really hard time finding qualified musicians for their groups. Prolly hard to financially keep a 16-man unit going, as well, iirc lots of clubs had to close down because they weren't getting enough customer traffic.

So they had to downsize their groups, and that led to a pretty swift search for music that sounded good with only a few players. The "trad" jazz quartet/quintet format was the result. "Piano jazz" was another

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There was a wartime cabaret tax on venues that offered singing and/or dancing; instrumental music was exempt. So, club-owners downsized to listening rooms with small groups, which proved more lucrative....

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Musical changes happen all the time because of economic or social circumstance, but are they part of the definition of that music.

I've been listening to a lot of early West Coast stuff this week (because of this thread, I'm so suggestible), and I think evaluating Lee Konitz and Art Pepper as making a different kind of music than Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie is really a matter of social criteria and not musical. Cool Jazz came out after Bebop, and it was mostly white guys, but separating Cool from Bebop is drawing a distinction without a difference.

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I had always read and heard that a lot of the musicians in big bands felt hemmed in by the format, and couldn't wait to jam with a few musical buddies in after hours sessions where they could stretch out and show off their improvisational chops. At the same time, Gillespie and Parker in particular were experimenting with more complex chordal patterns than could be used in traditional big band formats, and this combination of factors led to bebop. Is this just an urban myth?

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but those other circumstances you quote were real world factors that conditioned the emergence of the new, small group music. While it's true that many musicians felt musically "hemmed in" by the big band format, many of the younger black players weren't so much opposed to the big bands' musical practices but rather resented their second-class status in the big band "business", which rewarded the white bands/musicians over black bands/musicians. Hence, they forged an alternative practice that granted them at least a measure of both aesthetic and professional autonomy. Taken together all of these factors, aesthetic and practical, encouraged the emergence of the small group....

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Sean Trane Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Forum Senior Member Joined: 19 Apr 2011 Location: Brussels Status: Offline Points: 789	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sean Trane Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: improvement on be-bop's definition? Posted: 21 Nov 2011 at 4:33am
	Geeeeezzzzz guys, not everybody at once, uh???
	my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicted musicians to crazy ones....

Sean Trane Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Forum Senior Member Joined: 19 Apr 2011 Location: Brussels Status: Offline Points: 789	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sean Trane Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 Nov 2011 at 2:16am
	just a thought, to explain the background of its birth... just a few random thoughts about a thread in Prog Ears ------------------ but small-ensemble jazz (including bop) wasn't as much of an intentional stylistic shift as it was simple wartime expediency. Chronic manpower shortages for EVERYTHING meant the big band leaders were having a really hard time finding qualified musicians for their groups. Prolly hard to financially keep a 16-man unit going, as well, iirc lots of clubs had to close down because they weren't getting enough customer traffic. So they had to downsize their groups, and that led to a pretty swift search for music that sounded good with only a few players. The "trad" jazz quartet/quintet format was the result. "Piano jazz" was another --------------------------------- There was a wartime cabaret tax on venues that offered singing and/or dancing; instrumental music was exempt. So, club-owners downsized to listening rooms with small groups, which proved more lucrative.... --------------------- Musical changes happen all the time because of economic or social circumstance, but are they part of the definition of that music. I've been listening to a lot of early West Coast stuff this week (because of this thread, I'm so suggestible), and I think evaluating Lee Konitz and Art Pepper as making a different kind of music than Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie is really a matter of social criteria and not musical. Cool Jazz came out after Bebop, and it was mostly white guys, but separating Cool from Bebop is drawing a distinction without a difference. ------------------------- I had always read and heard that a lot of the musicians in big bands felt hemmed in by the format, and couldn't wait to jam with a few musical buddies in after hours sessions where they could stretch out and show off their improvisational chops. At the same time, Gillespie and Parker in particular were experimenting with more complex chordal patterns than could be used in traditional big band formats, and this combination of factors led to bebop. Is this just an urban myth? --------------------- but those other circumstances you quote were real world factors that conditioned the emergence of the new, small group music. While it's true that many musicians felt musically "hemmed in" by the big band format, many of the younger black players weren't so much opposed to the big bands' musical practices but rather resented their second-class status in the big band "business", which rewarded the white bands/musicians over black bands/musicians. Hence, they forged an alternative practice that granted them at least a measure of both aesthetic and professional autonomy. Taken together all of these factors, aesthetic and practical, encouraged the emergence of the small group....
	my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicted musicians to crazy ones....