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And what about Singers ?
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idlero View Drop Down
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    Posted: 30 Aug 2011 at 2:14pm

I think the problem with a lot of the fusion music is that it's extremely predictable, it's a rock rhythm and the solos all play the same stuff and they play it over and over again ...
Ken Burns
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Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by Cannonball With Hat Cannonball With Hat wrote:

Don't mean to sully the thread, but I too perfer my jazz without vocals. In fact, of all genres and types of music jazz (and jazz related things) is my least favorite type of music to contain vocals, and IMVHO it rarely works out well, especially for the music. Now I'm sure in the vast world of jazz somewhere it does, but I'm not wading through it all to find it.

I kind of disagree
 
sung jazz like Cab Calloway, Bing Crosby, Satchmo Armstrong, Elle, Billie, Bessie,  or even that Sinatra mafia twit work wonders for the music and the type of music it is... I mean it's made for for it... It's mainlu big-band music written with vocals 
 
 
But it's definitely not my cup of tea, that's all.
 
Where I find it (vocals) really doesn't do justice to the music is in post-65 jazz and JR/F
 
 
 
 
 
Ok, I admit. I spoke hastily. You are right. If it is big band music written with vocals tham that can be good. I probably should have narrowed my critique to the forms of jazz I"m much more  familar with (which especially isn't the early stuff). To me, it can just sound forced sometimes or not place the focus where I want it to be. This is especially true in the JR/F field, which it's hard for me to name one example where I like that mix.
 
 
In any case, I do prefer the instrument jazz more.  
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Originally posted by js js wrote:

When I was  very young, if you got up really early on Saturday morning they would have really early cartoons on the TV with music that sounded like Fletcher Henderson etc.
John I learnt so much from all those early cartoons, films. It is probaly the reason that I like all those old big Latin bands. There were heaps of old black and white movies that used to have that music in the Soundtrack. Loved the Bugs Bunny Show and still do. They are brilliant those cartoons. I wish they would release the more modern ones..50's up. They had a set of collections but kept releasing so much really old stuff which is great for the critics but what about all of us who used to watch em" I do own them but I would have done it different. There is no Foghorn Leghorn or Sylvestor when he had the son who used to put a paper bag over his head over the shame of his father (Sylvestor). All the big Bugs, Daffy and Road Runner are there but there are so many others.  Do you remember seeing "The Three Little Pigs" which was sung like an Rock and Roll song throughout the entire cartoon. Of course they have not released it.Unhappy
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Points: 35211 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2011 at 4:31pm
When I was  very young, if you got up really early on Saturday morning they would have really early cartoons on the TV with music that sounded like Fletcher Henderson etc.
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Frank Sinatra 

Jimmy Rushing
Kurt Elling
Billie Holiday
Chet Baker........actually prefer his vocals to his playing
Cassandra Wilson
Ella Fitzgerald
Sarah Vaughan
Nat King Cole
And although technically not a Jazz vocalist......Sam Cooke
 
Louis Armstrong....His trumpet playing though has the  edge over his vocals. First recorded scat was done by Pops if I remember right.'Heebie Jeebies" but there is previous stuff. Al Jolson in 1911 is one example but psst its not the same as Pops
 
 
Who saw the singing bullfrog from Merrie Melody's cartoons. He was singing Al Jolson
 
"Hello my Baby
Hello my Honey
Hello my Ragtime girl"
 
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I think the problem with a lot of the fusion music is that it's extremely predictable, it's a rock rhythm and the solos all play the same stuff and they play it over and over again ...
Ken Burns
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Sean Trane View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Cannonball With Hat Cannonball With Hat wrote:

Don't mean to sully the thread, but I too perfer my jazz without vocals. In fact, of all genres and types of music jazz (and jazz related things) is my least favorite type of music to contain vocals, and IMVHO it rarely works out well, especially for the music. Now I'm sure in the vast world of jazz somewhere it does, but I'm not wading through it all to find it.

I kind of disagree
 
sung jazz like Cab Calloway, Bing Crosby, Satchmo Armstrong, Elle, Billie, Bessie,  or even that Sinatra mafia twit work wonders for the music and the type of music it is... I mean it's made for for it... It's mainlu big-band music written with vocals 
 
 
But it's definitely not my cup of tea, that's all.
 
Where I find it (vocals) really doesn't do justice to the music is in post-65 jazz and JR/F
 
 
 
 
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicted musicians to crazy ones....

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yea I gotta say, of the jazz with vocals that I know, it is like .001% of my collection. I'm not expert on the subject.
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I know very few jazz with vocals, but someday I will start to listen some of the already mentioned classics.

In the less "popular" jazz field, you got Leon Thomas who also uses his voice as another instrument with his superb yodelling. I love his album Spirits Unknown and Known.
Tania Maria has a fine voice.

Jobim's voice is heaven-like.
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Originally posted by Cannonball With Hat Cannonball With Hat wrote:

Don't mean to sully the thread, but I too perfer my jazz without vocals. In fact, of all genres and types of music jazz (and jazz related things) is my least favorite type of music to contain vocals, and IMVHO it rarely works out well, espeically for the music. Now I'm sure in the vast world of jazz somewhere it does, but I'm not wading through it all to find it.



Try Ella Fitzgerald. She uses her voice as another instrument, and does some pretty complex stuff sometimes (not to mention her band(s) are phenomenal).
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Cannonball With Hat View Drop Down
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Don't mean to sully the thread, but I too perfer my jazz without vocals. In fact, of all genres and types of music jazz (and jazz related things) is my least favorite type of music to contain vocals, and IMVHO it rarely works out well, espeically for the music. Now I'm sure in the vast world of jazz somewhere it does, but I'm not wading through it all to find it.
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Hi,
 
Sadly, for my ears, most of the singing in jazz is done to add melody to the music ... and I'm not sure I have found, or heard a single singer, male or female, that could be said to really be singing "jazz" per definition ... since that would mean it is all improvised and free form, and in general, you would only find it in performance ... since in "pure" and "true" jazz, you can't really duplicate what you just did ... might get near it, but what was done, is done and gone, and this minute is different than the next minute.
 
While I can appreciate Ella and Flora and so many others, in many ways, they added "pop" to the definition of jazz in my book, and while they were very good, the music behind them was not really jazz.
 
Although the music is hardly "jazz", one can even check out Lisa Garrard doing her thing with Klaus Schulze, and in many ways that free form-ness is much more "jazz" flavored, even though it is rock/electronic done, than a lot of the jazz singers out there, that again, to my ear, are simply adding melody to the counter melody part of the music.


Edited by Moshkito - 25 Aug 2011 at 5:01pm
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Joe Williams
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I forgot Abbey Lincoln
I think the problem with a lot of the fusion music is that it's extremely predictable, it's a rock rhythm and the solos all play the same stuff and they play it over and over again ...
Ken Burns
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idlero View Drop Down
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Louis Armstrong at any time of day and night, Billie Holiday, Nina Simone and Nat King Cole from the old guard.
Diana Krall, Madeleine Peyroux, Lizz Wright, Malia from the 'young' generation
I think the problem with a lot of the fusion music is that it's extremely predictable, it's a rock rhythm and the solos all play the same stuff and they play it over and over again ...
Ken Burns
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Yes. I think that the Black Coffee of Peggy Lee is a wonderful tune. Or, Ann Burton is recommended.
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I also prefer instrumental jazz. However I enjoy the little Ella Fitzgerald I've heard. Louis 'Satchmo' Armstrong has his place of course, made some classics of music; not just jazz. What A Wonderful World has been a favorite since I was a child.

Richard Bona's stuff kinda makes me laugh (in a good way), only because I have no idea what he's singing; it's in some African (?) language. The music is somewhat jazz-funk, with some World Music influence.


Edited by darkshade - 16 Aug 2011 at 5:42pm
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I'm not big on sung jazz...
Sure Satchmo and Ella have their merits, but I must say that I much prefer instrumental jazz...
 
this said, the main exception I'd make is Norma Winstone.... her works in the late 60's and early 70's wxas incredible
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicted musicians to crazy ones....

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I like Cool singers, Chet Baker, Peggy Lee, etc.
Billy Holiday is nice too. I also like those old school blues shouters like Big Joe and that guy who was always with Count Basie.
Moving into RnB I like ensemble vocals like EW&F and Parliament, also individuals like Stevie Wonder, Prince, Marvin Gaye, Otis Redding etc.
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