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jazzworldquest
Forum Newbie Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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Good point! Italian and Brazilian music have many things in common and the examples can continue! From wikipedia: Some aspects of Brazilian culture are contributions of Italian, German and other European immigrants; came in large numbers and their influences are felt closer to the South and Southeast of Brazil. Edited by jazzworldquest - 13 Aug 2011 at 5:09pm |
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Matt
Forum Admin Group Jazz Reviewer Joined: 16 Jan 2011 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 2525 |
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Matt
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Atkingani
Forum Senior Member Joined: 22 May 2011 Location: Brasil Status: Offline Points: 304 |
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Yes, seeing from the present perspective we may testify/verify that the bossa nova trend of late 50s and early 60s was much more worldwide than observed at the time. The rhythm with new sounds, new instruments and new arrangements influenced a lot of genres, not only modern jazz and fusion but also soft rock and pop music (check The Doors and Mamas & Papas, for instance).
This influence was not only felt in USA but France, Italy and Japan mainly. The 1966 French movie "A Man and a Woman" (Un homme et une femme) shows this influence clearly. In Italy, we had the famous composer and maestro Morricone trailing the samba & bossa nova fashion too.
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dreadpirateroberts
Forum Admin Group Joined: 06 Jul 2011 Location: AU Status: Offline Points: 1836 |
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I'm with you there, Matt. I love this album (and pretty much all of his 60s/70s output.) He was amazing |
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We are men of action. Lies do not become us.
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dionisio
Forum Newbie Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Location: Bucharest Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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Samba and bossa nova they walk together, yes, but they can be totally two distinct things, I'm portuguese (i dunno if there is a brazilian in the forums that would be perfect to make this clear) i listen to the music from brazil since i remember walking, and in the jazz schools here you learn a lot of bossa (and believe, everytime you go to a jam with a girl.. if it depends on her, youll be playing bossas all night long ahah anyway, not revelant right now), my point is, even that the samba had a big influence on jazz, was the bossa nova that made the real influence, as sonority, structure or even chords and harmonic changes, what i'm saying is that i feel here a bit of a confusion between bossa and samba, at least i would never say that setence exactly like that, even that samba was, and it is, a huge influence in a lot of other music, it is bossa that deserves it space ( im not saying this as a smartass or whatever, just saying because i really think that they are two things totally different and when we think of the influence from brasil it seems more apropriate to say that bossa is the brother of jazz instead of samba). Samba is more like a traditional dance, a.. musical popular manifestation, bossa is something more like jazz, i can't explain it better, bt even if you think about the theoric part of it, the samba its not that close to jazz since its more a rhythm thing, while bossa.. damn. to finish, i know, bossa nova is sub derived genre of samba, bt it seems more correct this way, and during the 50's the jazz musicians in america were crazy about bossa, not necessarly samba. Bt well, im not here to correct, i dont want to look like snobish, just trying to figure this out (maybe im just used to think it that way, and its because during all my entire life and through some jazz schools we say everytime bossa and not samba, taking samba as something different.. at the end of the day, its just a name ! Give us some brazilian rhythms and i'm happy ! )
Edited by dionisio - 16 Aug 2011 at 9:53am |
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js
Forum Admin Group Site admin Joined: 22 Dec 2010 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 35145 |
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Guigo will be along, he is Brazilian and knows his music.
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Atkingani
Forum Senior Member Joined: 22 May 2011 Location: Brasil Status: Offline Points: 304 |
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Samba and jazz are considered siblings 'cause they have the same craddle, I mean, slaves and former slaves of African descent, with their parents and grandparents coming mainly from Western Africa (today Angola, Nigeria, Ghana, Togo, Benim). They have brothers, sisters and cousins throughout the Americas (Cuba, Jamaica, Venezuela, etc).
Those 2 genres also evolved, developed and reached maturity at the same time, from mid to late 19th Century up to early 20th Century but later they took different ways due to the different environments they lived. Being that after the 1910s and 1920s, the American entertaining and musical culture hold sway of the world and it was natural that samba started to undergo some influences from jazz and sooner two streams appeared: one more traditional and another more receptive to external sources. During WWII more than 1 million US soldiers passed through Brazil ih their way to North Africa and Italy and we saw a two-way interchange: new forms of jazz coming and samba, chorinho and other Brazilian rhythms going. By late 40s, Lucio Alves, Dick Farney and a very young Tom Jobim were recording what was then called "samba-jazz". Check here this 1947 song (10 years before bossa nova officially appeared): Here another samba-jazz, this time from 1954: The real and final bossa nova, a kid where samba and jazz were parents only appeared in 1958, with the now famous LP named "Canção do Amor Demais", which contained this landmark by Tom Jobim and Vinicius de Moraes: BTW, the name bossa nova (new trend) was revived in 1958 since it has been used since the 1930s by Noel Rosa, Carmen Miranda and others and initially it referred to the orchestrated urban samba in opposition to the more raw root samba from the favelas. EDIT: although my username here is Atkingani everyone knows me by my nickname Guigo. And welcome Dionisio.
Edited by Atkingani - 16 Aug 2011 at 2:55pm |
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dionisio
Forum Newbie Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Location: Bucharest Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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Makes more sense like this then, i didnt knew any of these, in fact, the stupid thing is that we are teached that bossa nova is the biggest jazzy friend, and the only samba i know is the one from the samba schools and carnivals, not as influenced and influencee of jazz. Great great, thank you !
EDIT: Oh ! Agradecido ! Back to english, thank you again ! Edited by dionisio - 16 Aug 2011 at 3:01pm |
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Atkingani
Forum Senior Member Joined: 22 May 2011 Location: Brasil Status: Offline Points: 304 |
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Be welcome, Dionisio! Seja bem-vindo!
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Atkingani
Forum Senior Member Joined: 22 May 2011 Location: Brasil Status: Offline Points: 304 |
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Chorinho is close to samba and close to jazz and a fine soundtrack for a Sunday meal with friends and family.
More: And a bit more: |
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Atkingani
Forum Senior Member Joined: 22 May 2011 Location: Brasil Status: Offline Points: 304 |
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Even Chet Atkins experienced the chorinho taste:
The original here (the correct name is Waldyr Azevedo): |
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Kazuhiro
Forum Admin Group Joined: 15 Jan 2011 Location: Tokyo, Japan Status: Offline Points: 3774 |
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Thank you for sharing the video,Guigo. It is very interesting. And, I thought about distinguished services of Joao Gilberto that developed those music to bossa nova again at the same time. |
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Atkingani
Forum Senior Member Joined: 22 May 2011 Location: Brasil Status: Offline Points: 304 |
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Tim Maia, the king of samba-soul.
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Atkingani
Forum Senior Member Joined: 22 May 2011 Location: Brasil Status: Offline Points: 304 |
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More Tim Maia (1942-1998).
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Atkingani
Forum Senior Member Joined: 22 May 2011 Location: Brasil Status: Offline Points: 304 |
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"The clear tear on the dark skin
The clear rain on the dark night" |
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Atkingani
Forum Senior Member Joined: 22 May 2011 Location: Brasil Status: Offline Points: 304 |
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Joyce Moreno, probably the best female composer of samba and bossa-nova - a great singer also.
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Kazuhiro
Forum Admin Group Joined: 15 Jan 2011 Location: Tokyo, Japan Status: Offline Points: 3774 |
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Thank you for sharing this. A lot of fans of Joyce exist also in Japan. She is a really good singer. By the way, there is a singer of famous bossa-nova in Japan. It was said that it was born in Sao Paulo and had touched music though Lisa Ono was Japanese. What do you think? |
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Atkingani
Forum Senior Member Joined: 22 May 2011 Location: Brasil Status: Offline Points: 304 |
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I know Lisa Ono and I like her, Kazuhiro-san. She actually was born in São Paulo, SP, Brasil.
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Atkingani
Forum Senior Member Joined: 22 May 2011 Location: Brasil Status: Offline Points: 304 |
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Maria Bethania is a great Brazilian singer who also recorded a lot of sambas and the likes. Here she sings a Bahia-style samba composed by her brother Caetano Veloso.
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Atkingani
Forum Senior Member Joined: 22 May 2011 Location: Brasil Status: Offline Points: 304 |
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Maria Bethania sings Heitor Villa-Lobos.
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