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Frank Zappa Appreciation

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darkshade View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkshade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2011 at 5:47pm
As someone who wasn't around in the 70s, the lyrics/singing doesn't start to bother me until after 1979 with Joe's Garage (I always thought it was the album he put his foot down with the problems he had with society/politics).

The 80s albums, though, are hit-or-miss lyrically for me. I'm glad he decided to go back to the music with his '88 band. It's too bad that band couldn't have lasted longer. At least he only worked on music after that. Unfortunately he was diagnosed with cancer not long after that, so he didn't have a lot of time to complete more albums (there was a lot of unfinished stuff he was working on)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dwill123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2011 at 8:16pm
Frank had a rare talent in making you think you were listening to rock when in deed you were listening to jazz.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2011 at 8:24pm
http://home.online.no/~corneliu/thingfish2.html
http://home.online.no/~corneliu/thingfish2.gif
LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOL, uh, oh Embarrassed

Edited by Slartibartfast - 19 Aug 2011 at 7:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abraxas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2011 at 8:40pm
Originally posted by dwill123 dwill123 wrote:

Frank had a rare talent in making you think you were listening to rock when in deed you were listening to jazz.

This is what I think: he had a rare talent in making you think you were listening to either funk, fusion, rock, r&b, jazz, avant, when you were actually listening to classical.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seb2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2011 at 1:32pm
Hot Rats was my 2nd Fusion album, BITCHES BREW bring the first. I was a fan of his APOSTROPHE album since I was 16 but it took 10 years before I heard his jazz music. He has a holy trinity of jazz for his legacy, completed by gradn wazoo and waka/jawaka
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkshade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2011 at 5:15pm
and with that trilogy there are the extensions with Wazoo (2008), and Imaginary Diseases (2006), both albums are from his '72 tour
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seb2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2011 at 7:54am
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

and with that trilogy there are the extensions with Wazoo (2008), and Imaginary Diseases (2006), both albums are from his '72 tour
Yeah I kept to studio albums, but Imaginary Diseases is an excellent album. I'll look into this Wazoo album I don't think I've had the chance to listen to it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seb2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2011 at 1:19pm
Originally posted by seb2112 seb2112 wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

and with that trilogy there are the extensions with Wazoo (2008), and Imaginary Diseases (2006), both albums are from his '72 tour
Yeah I kept to studio albums, but Imaginary Diseases is an excellent album. I'll look into this Wazoo album I don't think I've had the chance to listen to it
Just played disc 1. The tracks off of the album, The Grand Wazoo and Big Swifty, are amazing, but the intro is useless and Aproximation is devoid of interest. Still, it's amazing to hear this stuff live with the big band. I hope I'll find more hidden gems on disc 2 though
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2011 at 8:27pm
Hi,
 
I just posted a review of the ZPZ/RTF show in Eugene, Oregon on Sept 23rd, 2011 on the part of this board that deals with Live interviews.
 
I have to tell you that while I love a lot of Frank's material, that Dweezil's playing and shows are losing the feeling and I think that, while it is better and softer for the general public, in the end, it will probably make this whole thing redundant and forgetten along the wayside of some road to nowhere land.
 
If I was dad, I would have ripped my son for the work they did.
 
I guess that's the difference between an artist and everyone else, son or daughter included! Comparison is over and I think it is time Dweezil pulls the umbilical cord!


Edited by Moshkito - 26 Sep 2011 at 8:28pm
... And then one day, the prophet said that you and I would know what is art ... and real!
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darkshade View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkshade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2011 at 3:08pm
Man Ive been hearing a lot of negative reviews of ZPZ lately, mostly due to Dweezil's playing. I saw them when they opened for Dream Theater back in 2009, and I thought it was good, though a little underwhelming.

I do kind of think it's a good idea for Dweezil to take a break from ZPZ, especially since they don't seem to branch out to other of Frank's material (which I understand to a degree).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abraxas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2011 at 7:02pm
^sorry guys, but I really don't get it.

What's actually the problem? People are getting tired? Or is Dweezil palying badly, or what?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkshade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2011 at 10:08pm
Originally posted by Abraxas Abraxas wrote:

^sorry guys, but I really don't get it.

What's actually the problem? People are getting tired? Or is Dweezil palying badly, or what?


I don't either. I haven't seen them since 2009, so I wouldn't know per se.

A friend saw them a few weeks back for the Return to Forever tour, and said that the performance was very underwhelming, short of a few awesome songs...

Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2011 at 4:28pm
Originally posted by Abraxas Abraxas wrote:

^sorry guys, but I really don't get it.

What's actually the problem? People are getting tired? Or is Dweezil palying badly, or what?
 
Between you and I, what I saw was a bored man! And the only thing that was left was for him to add a few moments of rock'n'roll glory, complete with dumb solo moments, to get the musicians more excited ... which in my book brought down the music to the level of rock'n'roll and not what Frank was doing -- the first thing he would do is tell the kid in the audience to shut up and leave and then put down the guitar and paly the tea spoons while conducting the rest of the band ... or something like it.
 
Honestly, and I can not verify this, I think that Dweezil feels that he has to do this for his mom in order to help maintain the Zappa Trust and further the name of the family and music. The problem with that is, that he is sacrificing his own work. However, Dweezil is NOT what dad was, and his music is quite conventional when compared to dad's, which means that his chances are extremely limited and he can do better by playing dad's music! Which is what he is doing ... but he's gonna have to do something different and find some guests to help energize the show, because I doubt that Geritol is the problem.
 
I love a lot of this music. It is by very far, some of the most creative things ever written in music in the 20th century, despite it having a few too many un-necessary bows to rock music, or what not. But a lot of the fun in it for all of us, is the strength with which it is put out and the un-repenting and un-compromising attitude towards what the music really means ... and I think that Dweezil is missing that step ... and it hurts!
 
My recomendation is to take a break ... and if he does it again, do it with new people and do it differently instead of trying to duplicate what is already know and have seen ... the comparison which does nothelp him much ... because there are many versions of the original that are better! And he automatically becomes 2nd rate! But I would probably turn it upside down ... like instead of the Moog solo in King Kong, I would do it with a Harmonica, or a Kazoo, and blow out the audience ... wow ... that was different ... that was cool ... and make people "remember" the piece of music ...
 
I can go back to the album and listen to the original ... I can go put on Babe Ruth's awesome version too ... and listening to Chick play the Moog solo is cool ... but it didn't make the song better ... because it was just trying to be faithful to the original.  You know what is like? ... you trying to duplicate Chuck Berry ... and you already know how many people have done that ... but you only enjoy it because you had a few drinks, and then go home and you don't care! ... you either blow out the audience to be understood and noticed, or forget it ... you're just another wannabe Frank Zappa band in the New York jazz clubs showing off their musicianship in this fusion!
 
I love this music dearly. But I think that what is happening to the trust in the release and showing off the music is restrictive and is starting to hurt the whole thing and in the end, it will hurt the moneys coming in. I have stated before that what Dweezil should do is find a piece or two that have never been done or released from the vaults, and put them on the stage ... and blow out the audience with them! ... but I wonder if Dweezil really has the ear and feel for music beyond the stuff that he plays and is comfortable with ... that one I'm not sure about ... but you know there is more work out there that has never been seen ... but Gayle and the folks around Frank were all rock'ies ... and they only know one thing ... and that rock idolatry that Frank despised and trashed so much ... is not going to help the Estate get better and release more music!
 
Just what we need ... a remastered version of Sweet Little 16! ... right on ... let's ... you got the idea!
 
... And then one day, the prophet said that you and I would know what is art ... and real!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dwill123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2011 at 6:58pm
I saw ZPZ back in August when they opened for RTF IV in Philadelphia.  It was my first time seeing them and I thought they were very good including, Dweezil's guitar playing.  Dweezil does not have his old man's gift for stage presence,  raptor with crowds nor spontaneity.  If you ever saw Frank while he was alive you'll know what's missing.  While I thought ZPZ was good I still see them as not much more than a glorified tribute band.  Maybe after this tour Dweezil will release some original (or even some unreleased FZ) material in the future.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2011 at 2:32pm
Hi,
 
... you either blow out the audience to be understood and noticed, or forget it ... you're just another wannabe Frank Zappa band in the New York jazz clubs showing off their musicianship in this fusion!  ...
 
I did not mention it, but RTf did do a lot of improvisation, but they also showed how to use it and play with it, which ZPZ did not ... and instead did the rock-show thing with the solo bits ... and in the end it takes away from the whole performance and the player's ability ... like a few fancy licks defines the musician ... NO it doesn't ... but playing with others and knowing how to solo WITH others, is what ZPZ did not do well ...
 
It really showed the difference between someone that really knew what music means to them, including a stage, and just another cover band ... I don't want to think of ZPZ as a cover band, but all of a sudden it is all it was!
 
Free up the music ... stop trying to be note perfect and blow out the sections that need it to make this stuff more important ... of go home, get stoned and listen to the original, like most of us do!
... And then one day, the prophet said that you and I would know what is art ... and real!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dwill123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2011 at 5:24pm
Originally posted by Moshkito Moshkito wrote:

Hi,
 
... you either blow out the audience to be understood and noticed, or forget it ... you're just another wannabe Frank Zappa band in the New York jazz clubs showing off their musicianship in this fusion!  ...
 
I did not mention it, but RTf did do a lot of improvisation, but they also showed how to use it and play with it, which ZPZ did not ... and instead did the rock-show thing with the solo bits ... and in the end it takes away from the whole performance and the player's ability ... like a few fancy licks defines the musician ... NO it doesn't ... but playing with others and knowing how to solo WITH others, is what ZPZ did not do well ...
 
It really showed the difference between someone that really knew what music means to them, including a stage, and just another cover band ... I don't want to think of ZPZ as a cover band, but all of a sudden it is all it was!
 
Free up the music ... stop trying to be note perfect and blow out the sections that need it to make this stuff more important ... of go home, get stoned and listen to the original, like most of us do!
When I saw them in August I didn't have great expectations of being wowed by their virtuosity (that's what RTF was there for) although most of the band was pretty good including Dweezil.  They came off like a glorified tribute band and that was ok, it's a paying gig for Frank's son and I don't mind that (Frank gave and left so much).  Probably just me but what I really liked was at the show there were a lot of folks there with greyer hair than mine and you could tell they were having a blast (sort of like people at an oldies concert).  People were lighting up and bopping their heads to tunes they probably hadn't heard live since Frank left us 18 years ago.  I was happy to see that and for my musical desires RTF did not disappoint.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkshade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2011 at 8:16pm
It's a good thing this is a Frank Zappa appreciation thread. There is some disagreement here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2011 at 9:01pm
My latest from the Z man, wish I was there:

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 2:26pm
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

My latest from the Z man, wish I was there:

 
Got to admit Slart ... that's a pretty good sendup to Salvador Dali ...I never thought that Frank had any actual surrealism to his work. I rather thought that in that sense he was much more "modernistic" than the "surrealists" ever were ... but what the heck ... for folks that don't know art historyy it won't matter. The "surrealists" were not interested in socio-political commentary, and Frank was.
 
But I have to admit that cover is really off-track even though it is funny and fine to look at.
 
Sometimes, this is the bad thing about me ... I know too much art history, and I like to say that everyone here needs one book in their house ... Jensen's History of Art ... because there is no book that was ever written that was so clear about the history of the art and the time around it.  The only question I used to ask, even to the art teacher in school, was ... where's the music next to the art? ... where's the literature next to the art? ... to which I always got blank stares. I still do in PA!
 
How times change, hey?
... And then one day, the prophet said that you and I would know what is art ... and real!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkshade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 3:23pm
I'm going to bet that Frank had nothing to do with the artwork for "Zappa/Wazoo""
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