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Very low rating by collabs/reviewers
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idlero View Drop Down
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    Posted: 17 Jan 2012 at 3:24pm
I've noticed some very low ratings * or 1/2 stars by collabs/reviewers.
Admitting that collabs/reviewers are  more profesional than us the simple members, I'd expect such unusual low ratings to come with a review from which we could all learn something.
Thimar, Changeless , and even  Twelve Moons to quote only a few are generally well regarded albums both by critics and simple consumers( even in JMA rated 4 to 5 * by other members).
1/2* or * rating is beyond disliking an album, I guess it must have major flaws which I as an amateur fail to recognize.
 I think that by sharing with us what is behind such a low rating will help us to learn a lot about how to appreciate this kind of music and maybe even see some of the jazz albums in a new perspective.
I think the problem with a lot of the fusion music is that it's extremely predictable, it's a rock rhythm and the solos all play the same stuff and they play it over and over again ...
Ken Burns
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snobb View Drop Down
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Points: 29578 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snobb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2012 at 3:47pm
I expect you're speaking about Jan Garbarek's "Twelve Moons" and Anouar Brahem's "Thimar".  

Both albums (as possibly some others mentioned by you) contain quite specific music - world fusion or contemporary jazz on the border with new age. Some like it, others hate. I think any evaluation, especially of some sub-genre different from more mainstream jazz, is more a question of personal taste. Personally I am not fan of such music (but in many cases can respect level of musicianship at least), from other hand I like avant-garde jazz, which sounds as noise and cacophony for many more traditional genres fans - I perfectly understand extremily low ratings from them for music they hate Smile


Edited by snobb - 17 Jan 2012 at 3:48pm
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Kazuhiro View Drop Down
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Points: 3774 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kazuhiro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2012 at 6:21pm
I think that malice is not included in the review about the album which a low evaluation was given. It is not to confuse a listener even if I gave five star in music such as Kenny G in the future.

Some recognition for the music may be really different the listener of each country. An evaluated case is often in the music that is not popular abroad in Japan. In any case it may be a premise to love all music basically.
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I see what you're saying - in that, I'd love to hear why an album was 1 or 5 stars.

So I love a review to back up a rating, which is why I  a) never rate without a review and  b) have only reviewed less than half of what I own (and could thus potentially rate)
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js View Drop Down
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Good reviews help a consumer make an educated choice, or provide musicological information for those who seek it.

Bad reviews concentrate on the writers personal likes and dislikes.

I've probably read thousands of reviews by Scott Yanow and I have no idea what his personal likes and dislikes are. The reason why he gets paid money to write is because he can discern quality in many different genres and can write intelligently about them. It does not do anyone any good or provide any helpful information if someone dismisses a piece of music because it is in a style they don't like or understand.


Edited by js - 17 Jan 2012 at 8:51pm
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dreadpirateroberts View Drop Down
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I know what you mean about Scott, absolutely.

The heavy-handed 'likes/dislikes' approach can sometimes be a real credibility killer too: case in point, from this wonderfully unprofessional review by Mendelsohn:

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/albumreviews/led-zeppelin-ii-19691213

Published no doubt by RS for 'shock value' and to support their bias of course. If I ever write a review as poor as this one - someone tell me please!
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Points: 35204 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2012 at 9:09pm
^ I assume that is a sarcastic rip on Zep and their fans, sort of amusing for a while, but the joke wears out after a bit.
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dreadpirateroberts View Drop Down
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Yeah - that's how I read it too. Poor guy, he's probably embarrassed by that review now.
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Points: 789 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2012 at 5:28am

As one said a while ago in PA, I've been known to write some of the best one-star reviews around.... but that was in PA... Idon't think I've given one-star ratings in JMAyet (too lazy to check).

Probably because I'm still a rookie (or sorts) in this realm...Although I've heard jazz music well before prog, I'venot felt the need to discuss or write about it until fairly recently... whareas I used to discuss prog (or art rck as it was known then) back in high school

 
----------------
 
Anywxay a well-constructed one-star review will probably either scare me away from the album or intrigue me enough to check it out at the library system (provided they've got it), but it'll probably azttract my attention more
 
 
 

 

 
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicted musicians to crazy ones....

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Originally posted by snobb snobb wrote:

I expect you're speaking about Jan Garbarek's "Twelve Moons" and Anouar Brahem's "Thimar".  

Both albums (as possibly some others mentioned by you) contain quite specific music - world fusion or contemporary jazz on the border with new age. Some like it, others hate. I think any evaluation, especially of some sub-genre different from more mainstream jazz, is more a question of personal taste. Personally I am not fan of such music (but in many cases can respect level of musicianship at least), from other hand I like avant-garde jazz, which sounds as noise and cacophony for many more traditional genres fans - I perfectly understand extremily low ratings from them for music they hate Smile


Since collabs/reviewers ratings weigh more, their ratings should be more objective, on the level of liking or hating I suppose we should be equal. Maybe I don't understand the rating system, I thought that collabs/reviewers having more weight in their ratings should be also more objective in judging an album.
I think the problem with a lot of the fusion music is that it's extremely predictable, it's a rock rhythm and the solos all play the same stuff and they play it over and over again ...
Ken Burns
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snobb View Drop Down
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Points: 29578 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snobb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2012 at 6:40am
Possibly the review beside of such rating would help to understand how objective the rating is...

 I didn't give one or half star rating to jazz album here, but at the same time I gave 5* or 41/2 stars ,or even 4* to extremely good albums only, not every year so far I found even one such release. At the same time I see guys distributing 5* to every second album they rate or even more often. It means for me they just like any music, what is great, but at the same time I correct such rating for myself (counting such 5 as regular 31/2). Looking for genres top 10 lists I can see the albums presented there which look quite strange there - and they are there just because someone just gave them their "traditional" 5*. Nothing is good with that, but having such reality we should accept that someone who gives 5* to any album he likes at the same time rates 1* any album he hates. 

Personally I don't use "radical" ratings system and I would be happy if all of us be more responsible for our ratings, but we live in real life...
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Originally posted by idlero idlero wrote:

I've noticed some very low ratings * or 1/2 stars by collabs/reviewers.
Admitting that collabs/reviewers are  more profesional than us the simple members, I'd expect such unusual low ratings to come with a review from which we could all learn something.
Thimar, Changeless , and even  Twelve Moons to quote only a few are generally well regarded albums both by critics and simple consumers( even in JMA rated 4 to 5 * by other members).
1/2* or * rating is beyond disliking an album, I guess it must have major flaws which I as an amateur fail to recognize.
 I think that by sharing with us what is behind such a low rating will help us to learn a lot about how to appreciate this kind of music and maybe even see some of the jazz albums in a new perspective.
you know, one big mistake I made when I came to this site, was going through and rating albums that I have in my collection, then thinking I would go back and review later, but I have quickly realized I bit off more than I could chew, Rarely would I give a half star review for something.

Thimar was an album I did not care for, I felt it was dry and lifeless, it was actually one of my only ECM CD'S I gave away,  I did only listen the one time however, but it did make a negative impact, It's been a few years since I heard it, Maybe I will give it another shot. I have been going back through my ratings only, relistening to the music again, to get a fresh vibe, then I feel better about the review. but to be honest Thimar bored me to death the that first listen.
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idlero View Drop Down
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Points: 2158 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idlero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2012 at 1:52pm
Originally posted by darkprinceofjazz darkprinceofjazz wrote:

Originally posted by idlero idlero wrote:

I've noticed some very low ratings * or 1/2 stars by collabs/reviewers.
Admitting that collabs/reviewers are  more profesional than us the simple members, I'd expect such unusual low ratings to come with a review from which we could all learn something.
Thimar, Changeless , and even  Twelve Moons to quote only a few are generally well regarded albums both by critics and simple consumers( even in JMA rated 4 to 5 * by other members).
1/2* or * rating is beyond disliking an album, I guess it must have major flaws which I as an amateur fail to recognize.
 I think that by sharing with us what is behind such a low rating will help us to learn a lot about how to appreciate this kind of music and maybe even see some of the jazz albums in a new perspective.
you know, one big mistake I made when I came to this site, was going through and rating albums that I have in my collection, then thinking I would go back and review later, but I have quickly realized I bit off more than I could chew, Rarely would I give a half star review for something.

Thimar was an album I did not care for, I felt it was dry and lifeless, it was actually one of my only ECM CD'S I gave away,  I did only listen the one time however, but it did make a negative impact, It's been a few years since I heard it, Maybe I will give it another shot. I have been going back through my ratings only, relistening to the music again, to get a fresh vibe, then I feel better about the review. but to be honest Thimar bored me to death the that first listen.


I am relieved to find out that  'Site Reviewers' who have ten times my rating weight uses the love/hate/bored criteria for rating and even with a looser hand than I do.I can now rate music that annoys me with *  without having a guilty conscience.


Edited by idlero - 02 Feb 2012 at 3:23am
I think the problem with a lot of the fusion music is that it's extremely predictable, it's a rock rhythm and the solos all play the same stuff and they play it over and over again ...
Ken Burns
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I think I have a couple ratings lower than 2 stars, but I think most of mine are between 3-4 stars, with a bunch of 5 stars. Unfortunately I have too many ratings only, but I'll be fixing that over time.
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Just noticed this discussion.

I think in general the idea that you can purge your likes and dislikes from your view of an album is a myth. Which isn't to say that outright factual inaccuracy ought to be tolerated or that there aren't objective standards, but at the same time I think any review of music (or books or films or any other variety of art) inherently is going to reflect the reviewer's personal aesthetic reaction to it.

At the end of the day, you kind of have to judge reviewers by their tastes and whether they match yours. Does the reviewer ascribe high ratings to albums you love and low ratings to albums you hate? Well, in that case sit up and pay attention to what they have to say, because clearly, they're going to be in tune with what you like and their reviews will be much more valuable to you than someone whose tastes are incompatible with yours.

Also, sometimes people can genuinely dislike an album which most other people like. That doesn't mean they're wrong, that just means they're outside the consensus - and if you block out voices from outside the consensus, pretty soon you're left with a conformist echo chamber, which is the opposite of objectivity.
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^ I agree, especially about the cutting out voices from 'outisde' it's quite a risk, as a listener and a writer
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