James Forman aka Hen Gates |
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Bob Bell
Forum Newbie Joined: 26 Sep 2024 Location: Oakland, CA Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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Posted: 26 Sep 2024 at 4:10pm |
I am researching the various budget LP releases that came out during the 1950s on labels such as Plymouth, Palace, Masterseal etc that were supposedly by Hen Gates and His Gaters. The material was R & B, jump blues, jazz and Rock and Roll. Some of the material was by Freddie Mitchell from his days at Derby Records in the late 40s and early 50s. Other tunes were by Eddie 'LockJaw ' Davis from Lenox ... however most of the artists are unidentified. Davis and Mitchell were unidentified, and often the original names of the tunes were changed from LP to LP
The Philadelphia pianist James Forman used the pseudonym Hen Gates on some sessions with Charlie Parker, Gillespie and James Moody, as did Gillespie himslf on some Parker sessions. I believe it was Gillespie who passed on the nickname to Forman. As far as i can tell, Forman has NOTHING to do with material issued under the name Hen Gates on these budget records. I am trying to find out WHY this name was used, and if Forman had ANYTHING AT ALL to do with the releases. I did hear an unsubstantiated rumor that he might have owned the masters. I do know that Eli Oberstein bought the Derby catalog in late 1954, and subsequently Don Gabor issued many of these masters on his Plymouth, Paris, Masterseal and Palace labels. Any info on Mr Forman and/or Hen Gates will be very welcome! Thanks in advance for the flood of suggestions!
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js
Forum Admin Group Site admin Joined: 22 Dec 2010 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 35573 |
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Interesting, I will have some time to look into this tomorrow. I guess you know about Charlie Parker being last name Chan, and I think first name Charlie?
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Bob Bell
Forum Newbie Joined: 26 Sep 2024 Location: Oakland, CA Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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Yes, I do know about 'Charlie Chan', but not enough about James Forman! Any help will be much appreciated!
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Bob Bell
Forum Newbie Joined: 26 Sep 2024 Location: Oakland, CA Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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Does anyone have, or know of a photo of James' Hen Gates' Forman? Or have ANY info on him?
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js
Forum Admin Group Site admin Joined: 22 Dec 2010 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 35573 |
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Did you know that percussionist Mtume was originally named James Forman.
The links posted below are for the James Forman you seek (James Forman Jr) Edited by js - 16 Dec 2024 at 7:15pm |
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js
Forum Admin Group Site admin Joined: 22 Dec 2010 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 35573 |
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Here is the other James Forman and his work with Dizzy:
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js
Forum Admin Group Site admin Joined: 22 Dec 2010 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 35573 |
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js
Forum Admin Group Site admin Joined: 22 Dec 2010 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 35573 |
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More info on Hen Gates, apparently Hen Gates and the Gaters was a different Hen Gates then James Forman Jr
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Bob Bell
Forum Newbie Joined: 26 Sep 2024 Location: Oakland, CA Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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JS - I thank you for taking the time to post these links. I am aware of all of them except the Library of Congress one which i will gratefully explore later today.
I have been researching this guy for years (!) and still do not have a photo or a date of death. I am aware of James Forman, Jr (aka James Mtume, Jr.). His step father was James Forman aka Hen Gates. Dizzy Gillespie also used the name Hen Gates on a Charlie Parker session in the forties(Dizz was on piano on that date). For me, the mystery I am trying to solve is why 'Hen Gates' was the name used for many budget LPs releases in the fifties, on labels like Masterseal, Palace, Plymouth, Paris etc, when the material was by Freddie Mitchell or Eddie 'Lockjaw' Davis. There are many (c. 15) tunes that so far i have not identified the artists. All were marketed as 'Rock and Roll', and I don't believe Forman had anything to do with them, although I might be proved wrong. Other names were also used for this material, such as Jack Haines, The Rhythm Kings and more, and often using the same stampers, but different labels and sleeves. Unfortunately Discogs, Wikipedia and other sources are often just repeating incorrect info. Once again, many thanks for your input - I really appreciate it. Now does anyone have a photo? Or the copy of a death certificate?
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js
Forum Admin Group Site admin Joined: 22 Dec 2010 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 35573 |
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I think piano player James Forman Jr (aka Hen Gates) is different from the Hen Gates of the rock n roll records.
I tried a Hen Gates picture search and I got a picture of Lockjaw Davis. I don't know if you will ever find a picture of either of the two Hen Gates. The rocknroll Hen Gates seems to be a totally fake name, the fact that it is the same name of the piano player may just be a coincidence. The biggest problem I encountered was that most James Foorman searches lead to Mtume or James Forman the civil rights activist. I also tried searching with "piano player named Henry Gates". I'm going to try more searches sometime, this is an interesting mystery.
Edited by js - 17 Dec 2024 at 9:40am |
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js
Forum Admin Group Site admin Joined: 22 Dec 2010 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 35573 |
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This is the best article I found so far, this asserts that the two different Hen Gates are James Forman and Freddie Mitchell:
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js
Forum Admin Group Site admin Joined: 22 Dec 2010 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 35573 |
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A lot of these jazz musicians all knew each other back then and inside jokes were not unusual, especially when it came to messing with the establishment and the powers that be in the music industry.
My guess is that since it is a funny sounding name, Hen Gates became a de facto pseudonym to get around contractual limitations that jazz musicians would know was a joke, but the powers that be would not.
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Bob Bell
Forum Newbie Joined: 26 Sep 2024 Location: Oakland, CA Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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The pseudonym Hen Gates was either 1) a pun on Charlie "Bird' Parker's name when it was used by Dizzy on that 1940s record date, with Gates part being back then a honorific often used in greeting, as in 'Hey Gates, what's happennin'?, or less likely, 2) it was a local PHilly / NYC generic term like Darby Hicks, Joe Turner, Jack the Bear type name. Who knows? I have contacted James Forman's family, and am hoping to get an answer to the question: Was Mr Forman aware of this usage, and did he approve / disapprove or what? My piece for Blues and Rhythm will primarily be addressing the numerous budget LPs using this material, and attampting to identify the original artists (such as Mitcheel and Lockjaw etc). Thanks for taking such an interest, Bob
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js
Forum Admin Group Site admin Joined: 22 Dec 2010 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 35573 |
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Wow, thanks for the reply. Keep posting what you find here. Mysteries like this are fascinating. As far as beboppers and their humor go when faced with restrictions from 'the man'. I guess you know about Red Rodney being called an albino to get around race restrictions.
Gotta run some errands now, I'll be back later. Edited by js - 18 Dec 2024 at 9:46am |
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Bob Bell
Forum Newbie Joined: 26 Sep 2024 Location: Oakland, CA Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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I met Red Rodney back in the early 80s ... I guy I worked with, Porky Cohen, had worked with him back in 40s, and we were working in DC the same weekend as Rodney. I heard a lot of funny but completely unprintable stories about him.
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js
Forum Admin Group Site admin Joined: 22 Dec 2010 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 35573 |
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I see you are in Oakland. I lived in San Francisco for 21 years and played a lot of clubs in Oakland. I actually liked Oakland better than SF. The only musician I still know back in Oakland is a funk/reggae guitar player named Jason Collins.
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