Subgenre identification request thread!

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   Hi everyone,

As you already know from many of my posts, jazz subgenres are still a tricky, problematic area of knowledge for me, which is an issue especially when adding albums to the database. So I thought of creating a thread where I post a sample and the more knowledgeable members say what subgenre it belongs to. I'm sure many others would find this useful. Many thanks in advance to everyone willing to help!

Here's my first request:

What subgenre is this?

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harmonium.ro Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Forum Senior Member Joined: 07 Apr 2011 Location: Kobaia Status: Offline Points: 478	Post Options Post Reply Quote harmonium.ro Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Subgenre identification request thread! Posted: 11 May 2011 at 9:37am
	Hi everyone, As you already know from many of my posts, jazz subgenres are still a tricky, problematic area of knowledge for me, which is an issue especially when adding albums to the database. So I thought of creating a thread where I post a sample and the more knowledgeable members say what subgenre it belongs to. I'm sure many others would find this useful. Many thanks in advance to everyone willing to help! Here's my first request: What subgenre is this?

js Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Forum Admin Group Site admin Joined: 22 Dec 2010 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 35358	Post Options Post Reply Quote js Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 11 May 2011 at 10:06am
	He's mixing classical and jazz elements, so that goes in Third Stream.

harmonium.ro Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Forum Senior Member Joined: 07 Apr 2011 Location: Kobaia Status: Offline Points: 478	Post Options Post Reply Quote harmonium.ro Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 11 May 2011 at 10:09am
	I'd have never thought of that, but now that you say it makes sense. Thanks!

harmonium.ro Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Forum Senior Member Joined: 07 Apr 2011 Location: Kobaia Status: Offline Points: 478	Post Options Post Reply Quote harmonium.ro Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 May 2011 at 10:24am
	Here's another track: http://iordache.bandcamp.com/track/cheap-fun What do you think? Overall I'd call this album psychedelic jazz, but that's not really a genre...

js Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Forum Admin Group Site admin Joined: 22 Dec 2010 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 35358	Post Options Post Reply Quote js Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 May 2011 at 10:51am
	Sometimes genre on JMA is also determined by the artists background and time period. Just taking this piece out of context, basically it is Avant-Garde Jazz, the harmonies are mostly atonal, the rhythm has a pulse, but it is very loose and free. Its a swing based rhythm so its not Jazz -Rock. The playing was good and sincere, but they are not on a master jazz musician level. If they are musicians from a non-jazz or eclectic background we would put this in Jazz Related Improvisation. If they come from a jazz background, then Avant-Garde Jazz. Edited by js - 12 May 2011 at 10:52am

harmonium.ro Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Forum Senior Member Joined: 07 Apr 2011 Location: Kobaia Status: Offline Points: 478	Post Options Post Reply Quote harmonium.ro Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 May 2011 at 11:14am
	Thanks John, insightful comment as always. The background of all the musicians is classic jazz, but what you felt is there indeed. Many of this gang have ventured into rock, ambient music, soundtracks or acid jazz. RE the quality, this is a concert bootleg that Iordache sells as a homemade CD and gives for free as a download on Bandcamp. And no one who's not at master musician level, as you say, can guarantee a top level performance each gig. Once I was even asked by Iordache to delete a live video of him from YouTube because he thought they were not good in it. But overall this recording is worth adding because it does have some excellent moments (the reason I picked that one to post was that it's fairly representative, not the best). BTW it still puzzles me to consider "avantgarde" something with structure and melody, but that's my fault for not being familiar with the history of Jazz.

js Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Forum Admin Group Site admin Joined: 22 Dec 2010 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 35358	Post Options Post Reply Quote js Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 May 2011 at 11:41am
	I thought I'd give this another spin, some people would call this really outside post-bop, its in an area just between avant-garde and post bop, somewhat similar to Ornette. The definition of avant-garde does change with the years, there was a time when My Favorite Things and Love Supreme were considered very avant-garde. Its interesting that people still consider early Ornette to be AG, its not as outside as the AG that came later.

harmonium.ro Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Forum Senior Member Joined: 07 Apr 2011 Location: Kobaia Status: Offline Points: 478	Post Options Post Reply Quote harmonium.ro Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 May 2011 at 12:12pm
	Recently I've been covering gaps such as Contrane, Sun Ra, Mingus, Ornette, etc. and your definition of "avantgarde jazz" as a certain set of innovations from late 50s and 60s jazz makes sense; I just have to try to ignore what avantgarde means in other creative areas. And your mention of this piece of Iordache being placed somewhere strangely between post-bop and avantgarde is IMO also covered by the last paragraph of the avantgarde jazz definition, where you wrote that Sun Ra was a special case of avantgarde. Well, Sun Ra is Iordache's most important source of inspiration (his first project was a Sun Ra cover band), which probably explains a lot.