Hard bop or hardly bop?

Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic

   My understanding has been that bop and hard bop are somewhat like timestamps but isn't there a big musical difference?

Author	Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic
liontime Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List JMA Special Collaborator Joined: 22 Jan 2016 Location: Albuquerque Status: Offline Points: 124	Post Options Post Reply Quote liontime Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 Apr 2017 at 5:31pm
	My understanding has been that bop and hard bop are somewhat like timestamps but isn't there a big musical difference?

js Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Forum Admin Group Site admin Joined: 22 Dec 2010 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 35145	Post Options Post Reply Quote js Report Post Thanks(1) Quote Reply Posted: 24 Apr 2017 at 5:49pm
	I don't know how much music theory you know, but bebop uses 'functional' harmony based around the ii V7 I chord change. Its the same harmonic progressions we hear in classical music (Mozart, Haydn on up to Chopin) as well as sophisticated pop music of the pre-WW II era and a few years after that. Hard bop is more modal, often based around minor blues chord changes. In bebop the harmonies move and change faster, while in hard bop they are more apt to stay on chords where the harmony stays the same. In other words a bop player is having to change the scales he is playing faster than the hard bop player. Also, early bebop tends to use faster tempos than hard bop, but not always. Its that functional harmony that makes bop sound 'old fashioned' to modern ears. Todays music, from metal to hip hop and almost everything else is based around the sound of minor blues, Chicago blues actually. To that I would add that some bebop was based around minor blues changes as well. Edited by js - 24 Apr 2017 at 7:21pm

liontime Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List JMA Special Collaborator Joined: 22 Jan 2016 Location: Albuquerque Status: Offline Points: 124	Post Options Post Reply Quote liontime Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 Apr 2017 at 8:50pm
	That's very interesting, thank you for going through that for me. Didn't realize there was a tonal explanation for why old pop music sounds the way it does. I took Music Theory I (for majors) in college, but I'm no expert. I try to keep up with chord progressions when they seem important but I'm more than happy to just listen passively haha. That said, I mainly try to rely on instinct when it comes to identifying interesting chords/harmonies/etc.

js Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Forum Admin Group Site admin Joined: 22 Dec 2010 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 35145	Post Options Post Reply Quote js Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 Apr 2017 at 8:53pm
	Instinct is the best. I hear things by instinct first, and then try to figure out why later. It does not take any knowledge of music theory to hear the difference between bop and post or hard bop, they just sound obviously different.

liontime Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List JMA Special Collaborator Joined: 22 Jan 2016 Location: Albuquerque Status: Offline Points: 124	Post Options Post Reply Quote liontime Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 Apr 2017 at 8:56pm
	I appreciate your time and knowledge in this forum! The question of Hard Bop or Hardly Bop persists haha. Here's an album that is in line with the original intent of this thread: Sound of Sonny // Sonny Rollins. That's an interesting album, but I don't know that I would have called it Post Bop myself. The unaccompanied track is off beat, but is it that far out there?

js Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Forum Admin Group Site admin Joined: 22 Dec 2010 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 35145	Post Options Post Reply Quote js Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 Apr 2017 at 7:05am
	I changed "Sound of Sonny" to hard bop. Calling it post bop was understandable because there is very little blues on there, but just the general directness of the music seemed closer to hard bop. Its another example of how more than one tag can fit.