Cuban Music and its Deriavitives
Printed From: JazzMusicArchives.com
Category: Other music related lounges
Forum Name: General Music Discussions
Forum Description: Discuss and create polls about all types of music
URL: http://www.JazzMusicArchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1830
Printed Date: 24 Nov 2024 at 11:54am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 10.16 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Cuban Music and its Deriavitives
Posted By: Matt
Subject: Cuban Music and its Deriavitives
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2012 at 6:09pm
|
Cuban music is often labelled as Son and people are partly right but Son is actually a style of Cuban music which has become the most well known. Cuban music is divided into many of these styles or sub genre's which today has become a mix with comtempary Latin music becoming what is known as Boogaloo and Salsa. Many a Cuban singer, even today would wince as being known as a Salsero but a Sonero is the correct term for these singers that originate from the home of one of the greatest styles and influences throughout todays modern music including, particulary African and Western styles of music. Salsa also has Puerto Rican and slight western influences which have their own deriavitives and although Salsa is primarily Cuban based it has been, one could say, "corrupted with these other influences". This is not a page on disrespect for this fabulous music that Salsa has become and I myself would never have delved back many years ago into Cuban music if not for those first Fania Salsa albums that I purchased containing all the joy, drive, beat and class that great Salsa has. "Still it just the sauce" which went on top of Cuban music one could say, if you pardon the pun for Spanish speaking people.
The clave is the basis for all of of those poly rhythms which actually were originall old sailing ship pegs but slowly morphed into todays smooth looking varnished wooden pegs. The clave provides a five accents which is the basic under laying rhythm within so many Afro Cuban compositions and styles. Whether the clave is used or not by a band or orchestra that rhythm is still present. ------------- Matt |
Replies:
Posted By: Matt
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2012 at 6:12pm
|
First up I will start with the "Montuno" which are the repititions used in many of the deriatives of Cuban Music primarily at the end of the composition. Here is the first example with this link and yep it is a Fania release but still a Cuban composition by the great Arsenio Rodriguez and one will hear the montuno mid during the tune and particulary at the end of this little Latin rocker Larry Harlow changed it too. Junior Gonzalez is the vocalist with the montuno section having the addition of the coros ( backing vocalists) being mixed with Junior's lead. It's the repitition!
Celia Cruz has a version as well from her Tico album "Son Con Guaguanco".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9-chvaoyAs" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9-chvaoyAs ------------- Matt |
Posted By: Matt
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2012 at 6:12pm
|
Start from the begining with the first style being "The Danzon" which originated in the 1870's and is basically a four bar intro, another changed four and 12 containing melody with the whole thing being repeated over. Orquestra Antonio M Romeu is the band and Antonio was himself personally a pianist. This is how the charanga element was introduced as well when piano was added to the original Danzon line up of flute, violin, bass, timbalitos and guiro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi7ssW8CoGM" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi7ssW8CoGM ------------- Matt |
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2012 at 6:32pm
|
Good article Matt, I'm just getting into it, I'll probably have to finish some of it tomorrow, but I had one correction for you right off the bat: The clave is five accents, but it covers a four beat time period, or one bar. Saying it is "five beats" isn't exactly the right language, I know what you were trying to say though.  In other words, a clave is a repeating rhythmic figure that involves the same 5 accented beats within a one bar (or four beat) phrase.
|
Posted By: Matt
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2012 at 7:52pm
 ------------- Matt |
js wrote:Posted By: Matt
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2012 at 7:54pm
|
Son is next which all one needs is a guitar or tres and bongos to play at a basic pattern as Son is the African rhythm mixed with the European melody but things have become slightly more filled out over time with bass, trumpet, trombone, congas, piano added giving us a Conjunto band format which is the most common method to present the music today starting from the mid forties after the great Arsenio Rodriguez came up with the idea of the Conjunto band make-up. Of course the clave is the basic percussion pattern and Son is not just Son as it also has sub-genres being mixed within at times Afro, Bolero,Guaracha, Mambo, Guaguanco, Pregon,etc and the majority will have a montuno added to them bringing that absolute distinct recognition of its origins to the music's structure. Maria Teresa Vera with Rafael Zequeira and assistance from Manuel Corona on 2nd guitar had some of the first recorded instances of Son being made in 1916 but the band that is always remembered as the most famous is Sexteto Habanero as it was their early records in 1925 that actually popularised Son. They became Septeto when a trumpet was added to their line up of six already in October 1927 and then that classic Son sound was really born.
Here they are as Septeto with their tune "Coralla" recorded late May 1928
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe090EzuaWc" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe090EzuaWc
Below is Arseno Rodriguez with a Son Montuno presented in the classic Conjunto format. "El Rincon Caliente" recorded in Havana April 1950
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4nW8_jmJFI" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4nW8_jmJFI ------------- Matt |
Posted By: Matt
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2012 at 7:18pm
Mongo wrote the music for George Fame's hit 'Yeh Yeh" the lyrics though were done later ------------- Matt |
Posted By: Matt
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2012 at 4:55pm
|
The Gauracha actually predates Son and was used in early style Cuban Theatre originally (Bufo, comic theatre) is at a faster pace than Son with usually humorous lyrics which were sometimes critical with comedy injected of current social and political issues. As Guarachas are sung at a more rapid tempo the vocalists which specialise are named Guaracheros which has faded with time and today Sonero is in general description. Even though Son did come later the Guaracha today is catergorised under the Son banner as it is one of the most used forms of music with Son. One of the greatest singers to do the style was Celia Cruz who I will add could sing any other style as well just as proficiently but another who performed them beautifully was Nico Saquito whose bands name was Nico Saquito y sus Guaracheros de Oriente ( Oriente depicts which side of the Cuban Island that they originated from. The other side was named Occidente). Benito Antonio Fernandez Otiz was actually Nico Saquito's real name where he worked as musical director at the radio station R.H.C. and this is where he ran into Celso Vega's quintet and after Celso left for New York, Nico Saquito took over with the running of the band and renamed them Guaracheros de Oriente which dates back to 1946. Nico Saquito usually only added maracas and coros ( backing vocals) with his contribution to the band and the band did not just do Guarachas but covered most other forms of Cuban but it the Guarachas that they are remembered for.
The link below is for Nico's guaracha "Mama Belen" recorded 1947
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qC2AEqLwI88" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qC2AEqLwI88
And this one, first recorded 1946 is "Adios Compay Gato"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJI0OGkLUM0" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJI0OGkLUM0 ------------- Matt |
Posted By: Matt
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2012 at 5:08pm
------------- Matt |
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2012 at 5:19pm
| What is confusing is that in Memphis music language, boogaloo means an RnB drum beat from New Orleans that sounds a lot like the Bo Diddley beat. |
Posted By: Matt
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2012 at 5:51pm
 ------------- Matt |
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2012 at 6:04pm
|
Yeah I've been listening to boogaloo for years, I have lots of LPs and cassettes, I always called it Latin Soul or Latin RnB. One thing about the rhythm, you can say the phrase "boog a loo" every 4th beat, its in the rhythm, the loo comes on the next one. (pun unintended) ha.
|
Posted By: Matt
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2012 at 6:14pm
Love their early stuff. "Aguzate" is a fab Salsa album. " El Bestial Sonido de" is another. They always threw in English tunes most times on their early albums and Latined them up.
Here is Joe Cuba doing "Bang Bang" for anyone who wants to know what we are talking about. Pure Boogaloo. Biggest hit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MenOmqIBmIM" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MenOmqIBmIM ------------- Matt |
Posted By: Matt
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2012 at 7:01pm
|
Might as well do the Pregon while we have Son and Guaracha above because simply that is what the style is. The Pregon is taken from the original street vendors cries or yells on what he is trying to sell. Hawkers is another term for these sellers which were all over the world back around the turn of the century with this style of selling and not just Cuba and they still exist with similarities today where ever one travels. Son or Guaracha was the style that a Pregon's lyrics are placed over.
I have to place this on here even if it is on other thread it is that important being "El Mansiero" ( The Peanut Vendor) recorded by the great Antonio Machin 1930 ( New York) in its original form but this one is a later date either live or from a movie. This would be the most Famous Pregon of them all which is Son based and Rita Montaneer recorded the first version in 1928
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp6khgW2tn8" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp6khgW2tn8
Here is another from the great Miguelto Valdes in front of Machito and his Afro-Cubans. Yes this is Mr "Babalu" himself. "Rica Pulpa" is the song and it another Son based but this in front of an Machito's orchestra. Recorded 1942
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4G5LuEnWHo" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4G5LuEnWHo ------------- Matt |
Posted By: Matt
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2012 at 7:29pm
|
The Bolero is close behind Son for it's popularity and the Bolero ruled throughout the 20th century right up to the late fifties and still used today even on current contempary albums and still performed. The Bolero is what we would name as a ballad but technically it is not as it has a set rhythmic pattern being 2/4 time but the original Spanish boleros were 3/4 which is close enough for all us to say, "Yes they are ballads" to simplfy.
No need for any long back production here as the musicians from that time are here anyway and who else to do one than The Buena Vista Social Club, "Dos Gardenias"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pKW7qvYSHU" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pKW7qvYSHU
Now this one is real contempary done by my favourite contempary Salsa singer Gilberto Santa Rosa being "No Pense Enamorarme Otra Vez" He is fab and boy can he belt out a Bolero not to mention fantastic Salsa as well. This tune is from Gilberto's "Viceversa" album and also appeared on his compilation release "Solo Bolero" being all Boleros and Ballads of course.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKV6uH2SNQ8" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKV6uH2SNQ8
Nearly all Latin music and it's genres from all over South America and The Carribean has incorporated the Bolero ------------- Matt |
Posted By: Matt
Date Posted: 08 Jul 2012 at 6:18pm
|
The Mambo swept across the United States in the late forties not to mention Cuba and is performed by an Orchestra in most cases which is where it is most suitable as it is Afro Cuban swing. Perez Prado was the man who came up with 'The Mambo" He originally replaced Anselmo Sacasas on piano in the early forties in Casino De la Playa. He hit the rythmn by doodling on the piano so the story goes but there were many late night Jam sessions with the band.
Perez's own words "Keep it clean a and punchy, with shouting brass and diamond bright percussion" and another term he used was "The Mambo was Afro-Cuban rhythmns with a dash of American Swing"
Mambo No. 5 originally recorded in Cuba between 1947 and 1949.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOuRWkLP-dA" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOuRWkLP-dA
We have to have a Machito ( Frank Grillo) and it is "Tanga" written by Mario Bauza his lead trumpetor and arranger.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEgMsEKICqc" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEgMsEKICqc
Another have to have is the great Xavier Cugat with "Bim Bam Bum" which is really is a Guaracha mamboed up one could say with that Swing firmly injected into the composition. Wait to you see the clip. Not only was Xavier extremly keen on women he was one fabulous artist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT04xzKCDus" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT04xzKCDus
One more from The Mambo greats and this one is Tito Rodriguez, "Sun Sun Babae" recorded 1950 to 1951
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q29UMpP4vg" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q29UMpP4vg ------------- Matt |
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 08 Jul 2012 at 6:36pm
|
Great stuff, once again, "Tanga" has that typical mixolydian chord progression you also hear in early dub and African rumba, this time it is C to Bb. Prado and Cugat records in good shape are common in SF thrift stores, I have a nice collection of Prados. By the way, I found a cool record in my collection the other day, Roy Burrowes' "Reggae au go Jazz". You know that one?
|
Posted By: Matt
Date Posted: 08 Jul 2012 at 6:52pm
------------- Matt |
Posted By: Matt
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2012 at 4:47pm
|
Rumba is one of the lesser understood forms of Cuban music. Comprises percussion and singers only and is not to be confused with 1930's style Cuban Son and Danzons which some how garnered the name which was incorrect, The is another form of Rhumba as well although the whole world calls it that but technically it African music which originates from the Republic Of Congo and has nothing to do with Cuban Rumba albeit their music does have a slight Cuban Influence and it is spelt with a "h" included.
Rumba is of African origin but it is not African. You would not hear that style of percussive music anywhere over there. Sure you may hear influences but not Cuban Rumba with it's Yoruba origins. Rumba comes form the melting pot of African races that were brought to Cuba since the 14th century, Yoruba, Fang, Mandingo, Wolof, etc. It is played with three drums Tumba, Ilamador and Quinto. Boxes can also be used (cajones) that came about due to the illegality of hand drums in Cuba and if one was caught, "This is not a drum it is just a box, sir". The clave is also used or it can be spoons. Rumba also has vocals are which placed over the rhythm. When the Rumba starts that is where the dancers come in, either one or two who will simulate the meaning ascertained from the rhythm. There are six styles but three are primarily used only today being, Columbia, Yambu and Guaguanco. The Columbia is danced solo and the other two ( Yambu and Guaguanco) with a couple which is not just male and female but also can be just two males or the other way around.
Rumba is often associated with being Sacred music but although there are components with Santeria often being one of the claimed sources it is just party music that the Orishas with Santeria being one of, can listen too and party along with as well. Rumba was played indoors more so due to its illegality than any sacred context. That is why we have the dancers. This was basically African descent street music with all the European influence swept away and turned into what we could say black Cuban music due to it being practised by the African descendants and not the European in Cuba.
Here are some samples, instead of me waffling on and you can hear loud and clear what Rumba really is.
Here is group of professionals at it. Two styles the Columbia and the Guaguanco are danced.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO2Wk0r9wac" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO2Wk0r9wac
Here is another from a band that has does have Rumba influence and actually this band is greatest exponent of a fairly contempary style of Cuban music being "Timba' but here is it just, Rumba. Los Van Van is the bands name
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=960mzDHiFy0" rel="nofollow - www.youtube.com/watch?v=960mzDHiFy0 ------------- Matt |
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2012 at 5:21pm
| Yeah, that is the most African sounding, complex poly-rhythms. |
Posted By: Matt
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2012 at 5:31pm
I reckon. It is like I have that Torrent going. Not me I would never download a movie   It is those children of mine. Yeah I get them to do it for me  Anyway will get the Son In Law over soon to have a look . I reckon though he will say either wipe the lot or just get a new one Funny thing though it could be internet as my wifes lap top which has no crap at all, as she only uses it, is getting the same problem. Could be that router or could even be the provider with band width. Will need to check out. But still in action now.------------- Matt |
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2012 at 5:40pm
Just chain your computer to the back bumper of the family vehicle and take it around the block for a "re-boot", works everytime.  You son-in-law will never question your authority again, ...he will keep a respectful distance as well.
|
Posted By: Matt
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2012 at 9:03pm
|
What followed after The Mambo was another form of new music that became known as 'The Cha Cha Cha" and the first and leading expononent of this new music was Orquesta America. This band had what is known today as a Charanga set up which is usually no horns within the band that a Conjunto has but they are replaced with flute and violin which is more of that old French influence coming in too the bands set up. The Cha Cha Cha is basically a Danzon from which it was originally created but it also a Danzon with singing added as by this time in 1953 they were all played instrumental. Ninon Mondejar is claimed to be the creator of this style and the first to play it with his Orquesta throughout Cuba. The Orquesta had created this new form of Danzon with each youth club that they performed with each having their own one, with the most famous I suppose due to it's name being the Silver Star club. The band had a all but distingrated in Mexico but before they even left Cuba, Nino Mondejar had a falling out with his lead violinist and arranger Enrique Jorrin over who was the creator of this new music and sacked him. When the band arrived in Mexico over half returned to Cuba dissatisfied and meet up again with Enrique Jorrin and created Orquesta America Del 55 in 1955
Here is the original Orquesta doing their first "Rico Vacilon" 1953
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhyJ5gVOK1w" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhyJ5gVOK1w
And this is a later one from Orquesta America del 55 without Nino
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiVNbwJxytk" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiVNbwJxytk
I will say that today "Cha Cha Cha" is usually labelled as just Charanga. ------------- Matt |
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2012 at 9:35pm
| That's the connection I was looking for the other day. Basically that steady rhythm they use in cah-cha, even accents on all four beats, is the beat they mix with RnB to get a lot of the boogaloo beats. This is where that cowbell on every downbeat comes from. |
Posted By: Matt
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2012 at 5:49pm
Salsa has been in the doldrums and there are nowhere near the amount of releases that were coming out 10 years ago. But I think that is the same with almost everything. Companies don't want to take a chance much anymore. I suppose you can't blame them with music sales on the down but they will never go up either if they don't take chances.------------- Matt |
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2012 at 5:54pm
|
What about the original Oye Como Va (Tito correct?) what would you call that style? Once again it has that steady accent on all four beats.
|
Posted By: Matt
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2012 at 6:13pm
------------- Matt |
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2012 at 6:20pm
Yes!! got one  I've always thought was a sort of modern cha cha hybrid.
|
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2012 at 6:21pm
| A lot of that boogalloo comes from the cha cha too, correct? |
Posted By: Kazuhiro
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2012 at 7:18pm
|
Because John mentioned Boogaloo, I remembered "Ivan Boogaloo Joe Jones".
|
Posted By: Kazuhiro
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2012 at 7:48pm
|
I understood that Boogaloo was a genre such as the mixture which increased various factors in Latin music. Of course it might have the relationship that was close to salsa. "Ocho" is in the site. They still performed pure salsa at that point, but the existence of the boogaloo might slightly give a change in rhythm of the Latin music in the 70s.
|
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2012 at 8:18pm
|
Yeah, Boogaloo is like a mixture of Afro-Cuban jazz and American RnB. Its wonderful music, great for a hot summer night. ... ahem ... when Matt's not here, I am the Latin music expert
 |
Posted By: Kazuhiro
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2012 at 8:31pm
|
And I must learn his overwhelming information desperately when Matt returned here. However, I am still a student of John now.
|
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2012 at 8:40pm
I'm afraid you won't learn much from me  ...but Matt will be back soon enough, loaded up with enough montunos to last us till Christmas.  ... or loaded up with something.
|
Posted By: Kazuhiro
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2012 at 8:51pm
|
I referred to solo of Steve Gadd about Montuno rhythm before, but his personality seemed to be too outstanding. |
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2012 at 8:56pm
| The montuno is the repeating piano part, and Gadd is showing some rhythms he can play against that, good stuff. |
Posted By: Kazuhiro
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2012 at 9:10pm
|
Posted By: Kazuhiro
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2012 at 9:10pm
| Thank you. I am going to be familiar with even Montuno. |
Posted By: Matt
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2012 at 6:30pm
|
Trova is another style of Cuban music and one where the folk traditions hold sway as Trova is primarily accoustic and usually played with just tres or guitar and one artist is all you need. Trobadour is a perfect description but Trova can be played with additions to the line-up and it is the rural music or you could even say the country a'la Cubana. Trova was originally written by the greats who many were musically illiterate and could not read or write music but as with folk music a great tune still keeps getting handed down but still a lot of the early Trova pre 1900 is lost. They all started to come about in the mid 1800's and some of the most famous were Pepe Sanchez, Sindo Garay but there is another that was mentioned in our Son post being Manuel Carona who assisted Maria Teresa Vera.
One of the modern greats is Compay Segundo who regained attention thanks to The Buena Vista Social Club but originally his name was Francisco Repilado and with Lorenzo Hierrezuelo formed Duo Los Comprades. These two were busy already as Lorenzo was playing with Maria Teresa Vera and in Miguel Matamoro's conjunto. Fransisco was also with Miguel's conjunto but he was on clarinet not tres back in 1948. The story goes Maria Teresa Vera became ill and Lorenzo arranged for Fransisco to replace her on tres and Duo Los Comprades was created. They also used accompaniment musicians, guiro, bongos and bass within they're recordings and shows which many of the songs were written jointly and alone by these two musicians. Son is the major component to Trova.
Here they are doing some absolute classic old Son
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXbTRCAnEiw" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXbTRCAnEiw
This man was the Guajira specialist, oh but he sang them as we say in a western fashion "stripped". Solo, trio or conjunto this man played them all and his popularity was immense throughout the late 1930's until the mid forties being Guillermo Portables. He actually is my favourite as he sang them in trained slightly formal manner but he could hold a songs melody with his voice to perfection. Oh, you are transplanted right under the coconut tree with how this man played his Trova. Not the original take unfortunately but never the less still absolutely beautiful with this Guajira. He whistles as well in the original.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dat8FA6z45Y" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dat8FA6z45Y
One of the modern ones is Eliades Ochoa who is another with that Buena Vista Social Club and here is little swinger that will have you wishing that red swirling dress with the legs to go with it, is in your lounge entertaining you. Modern style Trova
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elDEjfoA2yc" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elDEjfoA2yc ------------- Matt |
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2012 at 3:14pm
|
Spanish is probably the finest language for vocals. After my appreciation for American RnB singers, I'd say my favorite singers are in Spanish or French, but with an African dialect or influence, especially African pop/funk music. |
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2013 at 6:16am
|
Wow, I just discovered this thread here! Too much to be seen at home, tonight! Excellent!!! |
Posted By: js
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2013 at 8:03pm
| Yeah, I love Afro-Cuban, but sorting out all the terms can be tough. |