Frank Zappa & Jazz
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Category: Jazz Music Lounges
Forum Name: Jazz Music Radio
Forum Description: Jazz Radio Stations
URL: http://www.JazzMusicArchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22655
Printed Date: 01 Apr 2025 at 3:23pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 10.16 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Frank Zappa & Jazz
Posted By: MondoJazz
Subject: Frank Zappa & Jazz
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2018 at 7:47am
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Dear Zappa fans,
I am happy to share the second part of “Frank Zappa’s Jazz Allures”, which – together with Part 1 – in about 5 hours tries to highlight the jazzier side of Frank Zappa, especially through the renditions of his work played by countless jazz musicians/bands. Of course there’s plenty of Zappa himself.
And if you missed the first part: https://www.mixcloud.com/MondoJazz/frank-zappas-jazz-allures-mondo-jazz-ep-53/" rel="nofollow - https://www.mixcloud.com/MondoJazz/frank-zappas-jazz-allures-mondo-jazz-ep-53/
The detailed playlists are available here: Part 1: https://spinitron.com/radio/index.php?station=rfb&playlist=8916#here" rel="nofollow - https://spinitron.com/radio/index.php?station=rfb&playlist=8916#here Part 2: https://spinitron.com/radio/index.php?station=rfb&playlist=9096#here" rel="nofollow - https://spinitron.com/radio/index.php?station=rfb&playlist=9096#here
I would love to hear your thoughts on it and more generally on Zappa & Jazz and if you know of albums I’ve not included, by all means let me know.
Thank you and happy holidays!
Lu |
Replies:
Posted By: Moshkiae
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2024 at 7:31pm
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Hi, (Wow ... 2018!!! ... hope he reads this, or anyone else) I'm not sure that Frank Zappa fits in any area of music any more than the other. In his early days, it was more about the satirical edge on things around him on radio and TV, and later, things kinda changed, as he began to take his own music more seriously, and while some things appear to have some jazz this and that on it, in the end, I find that his compositional ability is way beyond rock/jazz and even classical ... and his comment about it "smells funny" is probably a joke and he likely would say something just as weird about rock music or even classical music. I've always thought that he was more interested in making sure that he added the touches he felt were needed to each musical piece ... and we, on the outside of the whole thing tend to generalize how we think it might have some of this or some of that ... the strange thing being I have never looked at a lot of his music and thought ... ohh there's some jazz there ... or there's some rock there ... in the majority of his work, although into the 1970's he became more of a rock writer than anything else, culminating with "Overnight Sensation" which showed his cleverness and ability as a composer, even of things that were more commercial than most of his work, which was always challenging the status quo. However, it is really nice to see someone write this kind of stuff about an artist ... which is something not often done in America, where too much of the music is about the commerciality and not the music ... and this was something that Frank fought all his life. And perhaps it is most visible in his 200 MOTELS film, where the material itself is a complete satire, non-stop to the end, including the amazing choir piece, which was better shown in the UCLA revival created by Gayle Zappa just before she passed away ... which made the whole thing sound even better and more entertaining. Somehow we missed all the fun ... along the way ... and in many ways, this was what Frank was really about ... but as a composer, there are very few in America that can come close to Frank's ability and output. I'm not sure I would recommend folks listen to Frank's work for jazz or rock, or anything else, because it will get folks frustrated, and this is clear in the rock side of things on PA, where some fans dislike Frank because he is not a riff minded player, or a typical melody minded player at all, and he is by very far one of the best improvisational guitar players ever ... however, not much of his extended solos have been released by the family, which kinda keeps him stuck on the commercial side of things, likely for the sale of the stuff, more than anything else ... and sadly, we don't get to hear more, and they have a hundred times more material in their vault. I guess we have to wait until the copyrights run over and it all becomes public domain, and then we can, finally, find out what he had left behind.
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Posted By: js
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2024 at 7:48pm
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Well Frank was certainly influenced by jazz, as he was also influenced by just about any musical genre he encountered. His guitar playing was definitely more in a rock or even 'jazz-rock' direction than jazz. I have never heard Frank solo over some fast moving bop chord changes as that wasn't his sort of thing. Frank was an assimilator, which is what a lot of modern artists do, create something new by combining the past in new ways. Also, like many arrangers and band leaders, he leaned heavily on his sidemen to help elevate his work by interjecting their talents and creativity into his own work.
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Posted By: Moshkiae
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2024 at 11:11pm
Hi, In this age of the Internet and the fact that everything is out there available in one way or another, there isn't much that anyone has not heard or found out about ... and I suppose that we could say that it all kinda came together mid century when everything ended up being recorded, and a few years later, everyone can hear them. Today, us, as listeners, will easily think/suggest something that this or that happened, and looking at things in a logical (historical) way, is very difficult ... and I think that these combinations of past work, by someone else, is one of the things that a lot of composers have used and worked on. However, the history has been mostly about the total changes and new materials that were completely out of the regular flow of popular music, though I think that the only thing that Frank could hear was this stuff (radio/tv and the LA area was a very lively music/arts hub) ... and then he found some classical music that turned his head around ... the combination of which is strange and weird, but he was able to make things work. I agree with his use of the sidemen to elevate his own work ... His solo stuff ... there are stories, and Steve Vai has mentioned some, as has Guy Guden ... who during his warm up before the show, (sometimes) he would just play the guitar non-stop, and Guy suggested that was the best Frank Zappa he ever heard, and none of it would fit an "album". I kinda think that a lot of this stuff is what is still buried, and will not be heard ... because it isn't a "song" ... the curse that is the history of music in America the last 50/60 years. |
js wrote:Posted By: Moshkiae
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2025 at 12:38pm
HI, I just had the thought that it wasn't "this or that" that influenced him. Coming from the area he did, where music was not an art, but a song in a bar, I think that Frank found himself ear tuning to anything that was different, and possibly regardless of where it came from ... and if were me ... I would probably say ... I wanna do that in my own stuff. And I think he did, however, trying to connect what he did to this or that is not easy ... I suppose we could say that George Duke helped with a more jazz 'y feel, however, even in his (which I have not heard btw), I'm not sure he did jazz exclusively ... or folks would have talked about it. I thought it might be like a kid in a candy store ... ohhh what's that like? Gotta try that! It's a really interesting discussion and bunch of thoughts, but I'm not sure that we can depend on any of these thoughts ... just as we say A ... here comes a B ... and then a C ... later for good measure ... it's like the bad boy thing, and he might have done something just to say he could and would and the folks that played for him knew that what they did was cool and special and different, even if they were not exactly the most talented musicians ... but under Frank's direction? They were great.
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