idlero wrote:
Can we talk about European Jazz as something different from the American jazz?
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There are some bits and pieces that are "distinctive", although for today's standards, instead of 50 years ago, I would say that it has levelled off a lot, because of the internet and the ability of everyone being able to hear everyone else and do something ... thus the ability to do something more "local" and "individual", is likely to not be as easy to find as it is today, compared to what things were like then.
The DVD on Tom Dowd has an amazing history of the recording of records and how it got started in America. And when you hear it, you will see 20 years slip right by you, and his comments are really interesting ... he even said, and thought that a lot more experimental and different things were being done in the earlier days, whereas today, too much of it is almost too composed and preset for a specific set of instructions and/or details in music that will bring the band together again ... a concept that Miles Davis himself is usually given credit for starting.
While that experimental side of the very early jazz was there, the far out thing was that it was not necessarily acquainted with pop music, or classical music, or anything that was known at the time in terms of music history and its concepts. And I think (<<<--- "think") that later, when the movie studios took over the recording business, that a lot of this music was dropped and forgotten about because it's own stars had more selling power than many of these "jazz" and "black" musicians that were mostly associated with a few spots in America and not exactly known, or appreciated anywhere else, but ... in the big city, let's say, and even then, the appreciation was limited because there was no "intelectual" discussion or appreciation of the music anywhere to be found and this is where many of the names that eventually became the big label names were so important ... but you and I can not quite name one or two that were there in the 50's ... which tells you that there is a lot of that history that is still buried ... waiting for Dr. King's dream to come alive!
European jazz, to my ears, has more in it, that one can find in classical music and other music histories that are peculiar to any areas in Europe ... like Germany has its own bits, England its own, Greece its own, Poland its own and so forth ... something that is difficult to discuss without people feeling that their cultural heritage is being attacked. The compositional side of it, has a lot more in common with classical music, than the American early designs for jazz did ... and I think that a lot of it has to do with the history of music in Europe and the fact that is what you learn first in school before you set out to learn the instrument that you end up with. But, there is one thing that Europe is capable of doing that America is not ... in a teaching environment, no less ... music schools that KNOW the history of music and are not afraid to find ways to ... study and learn ... new music's ... and what became known as "krautrock", also had just as many bands that were doing jazz in what might also be considered a different context than what we're used to hearing and discussing. And some of these, like "Between" and a few other bands, are not exactly ... an easy listen for most of us ... they are so different ... or even another example, albeit English, like the early Soft Machine stuff intentionally doing "jazz ragas" ... by making sure that the themes and ideas did not repeat to ensure the continuation of the music "experience", which happened to be a good thing for those days in the 60's ... get stoned and get experienced.
There are, unlike America, a lot more mixes in European jazz, and you have to admit that the proximity of each country to another ... you find, for example, in lots of the so-called progressive music a lot of jazz licks, and you can even go check out Pink Floyd, where Richard Wright is probably the guiltiest of them all, but not the only one ... you can find Terje Rypdal's taste for classical music in his guitar playing ... it's really very classical in its implementation, and quite visible in his early albums ... but because "Odyssey" sounds like "jazz" we did not notice how the instrument was used.
The last part, is the important one ... that should not be considered "jazz" ... it's really hard to think of Keith Jarrett, for example, as "jazz", or "classical" or anything else ... simply stated he is about a free form thing that defies description but is, in essence, a lot closer to a classical music piece, than it will ever be "jazz" ... even if he uses a set of notes or chords, that is usually associated with jazz ... and to me, this is where the definitions break down and die quickly ... because, there are times when our definitions hurt artists ... big time ... by bundling them in a place, where ... most do not listen to that kind of stuff ... and like many Europeans, Keith has a classical streak in him, and I think that he works hard to bury it and make sure no one can see it, or have any idea where it is, or isn't -- I doubt it because he has a very sensitive "feel" that has more to do with expression than it does notes or any music out there ... and this is the danger ... of us trying to represent music by one feeling and not another ... and as such, the music definition ends up drying up, and losing its flavor, and eventually ... it's fans!
Now you know me ... born in Europe, lived in Brazil and then America ... music is different in different places, but in the end ... it's "MUSIC" ... not jazz, or rock or anything else ... and I really think that taking the labels out of it is important to creativity ... or it all sounds the same ... and you and I will be bored sh*tless!
... it was a bit individualistic, but then, freedom usually starts out that way! ...
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