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The Mosh Pit

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Printed Date: 06 Mar 2025 at 12:16pm
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Topic: The Mosh Pit
Posted By: Moshkiae
Subject: The Mosh Pit
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2025 at 9:31am
Hi,

Area designated for some of my excursions in various forms of music.

Apologies for having created separate posts accidentally and is now together under one topic.

Thx


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Pedro Sena www.pedrosena.com



Replies:
Posted By: Moshkiae
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2025 at 9:32am
Hi,
The Mosh Pit - Damo Suzuki

NOTE from an empty soap box"

Long article as this is a part of my specialty and book on "Improvisation". I would like to say that the current "special" on "krautrock" is crap, and thinks it is good because 5 folks can say hello before passing away. In the end, their work is empty as it really has no source as to where it comes from or help for all the artists mentioned ... it is a commercial thing, designed to make money for a few folks, and not be a valuable article about the arts whatsoever. "Krautrock" on its own, instead of an art form, is soulless! And "krautrock" was not exactly just about rock music. Jazz was also a big part of it, though less discussed all around!

Here we go:

History is kinda different and funny sometimes. We have a strange way of looking at it, and constantly ignore the artistic movements during that time, and how they affect things all around. It was a time for a lot of experimentation in West Germany, and the usual nationalistic various short wave stuff assaulting East Germany with Beatles, Rolling Stones and Elvis Presley, and eventually their youth came alive and East Germany was over with the Berlin Wall coming down, though you could see the history coming alive in at least one piece of music by Guru Guru ... Das Lebendige Radio ... which made fun of the designated music in that time over there ... but now, the whole thing, and this was 1976 before the Wall came down, specified that feedback and Chuck Berry was their God, so to speak, not the stuff they were being fed ... and you now can see, a very pointed attack on things, though done so in what is considered a funny style. And it's source? The well known art movement that became known as "krautrock".

How it started has its ... many ideas and touches, and in one "krautrock" special, that had several parts there is a comment by Edgar Froese that is important ... the past was over, the present is here ... and all that is left is the future ... with no direction or understanding, just what appeared to be an empty future, that helped bring about a personal freedom in the arts, that took hold really well, and one of the things that helped it, was ... the most obvious of things of all ... the total improvisations, of anything that went on a stage, or on the streets. It's probably much easier to say that the street always had this sort of thing, but it was never noticed, or appreciated, and all of a sudden ... BOOM! Damo is it!

There was not a whole lot of media discussing this or showing it, but soon enough some film makers went to bat for these new things, and Werner Herzog and Wim Wenders, and probably others not mentioned, ended up showing us some things that were not the norm, or the prescribed preferred chicken music that was shown on TV. 

Now comes the hard part ... you can't discuss Damo, and then CAN, without having a better idea of what the theater and film were doing ... and Werner Herzog went out and found a lot of his early footage and made it into a special on Klaus Kinski, and what was it that was being done at the start? A free form in front of the audience, and he took pot shots at the audience and was appreciated and boo'd as well. We can go to the theater, and at least one playwright was doing "word plays", which is something that Brian Eno adapted later ... with a sort of card game. The word plays had no sentences, or lines per se ... they were strictly word plays, mostly one act plays, that went on for their 15 minutes, as if the words themselves had a different meaning and it was a part of dialogue of some sort ... let's say that it was a dialogue-less moment with words, something that we can not imagine or ever give it a try ... and people always wondered where the communication was? In the words? In the folks involved? Or in some imaginary concept by our minds?

The streets of NY, London, Paris, and Berlin, have one thing that small places often don't ... it has been given a name of "busking", or folks just playing whatever in the middle of the street, and hoping to make a few coins here and there for a dinner, or equivalent ... and you know, for example that NY had the Harlem kids pretty much making rock drummers look like total idiots without a touch whatsoever, except a metronomic left or right hand on a snare drum ... these kids showed the world that "timing" was not what music was about. Add some theater to all this, and folks like Joseph Chaikan was putting together something he called "The Open Theater" in 1963, and it made its mark more in Europe than America, as Europe had a larger history of the arts, and America always made a point of having the media destroy the arts, in the past 75 years, and convert them into commercial adventures. And who owned these things? The movie studios, and this was not new in America, as the movie studios owned almost all of anything done in music, and were the only ones with recording materials, owning the majority of the radio stations since WW2, and specially after the Orson Welles earthquake of farts that scared a nation ... that was never going to happen again, and the controls were created. People still screamed at the image of the train coming towards you, or the gun fired at you in the cinema screen, and it wasn't until after WW2 that this fear subsided some, but by then, things were changing fast and faster.

Europe was a mess after WW2, and it left a younger generation with no connection to a lot of things, and the arts were the easiest things to see. And several movements took off in literature and theater, and film, though in places like Italy the film industry became a political tool. At least in the rest of the European continent most of it was free of influences by political anything.

Things like "The Open Theater" and eventually the loudness of the acting schools coming out of England and America, or the famous great scream, that seemed to wake up a lot of folks, were finally given a voice ... and it was not only heard, it was used massively.

BUSKING, as it is known, is not usually about lyrics or words, it is in many examples just another "word" exercise, and anyone trying to find meanings is going to hit a lot of brick walls. It isn't about meaning, as it is about the feelings at that very second, and sometimes it is on cue with what is around it, and sometimes it is not.

The CAN folks were not kids that just picked up their instruments and one day learned nothing in school, and were handled out like a machine, or as was romanticized, a meat market! They were students at a very well known school that had gathered a lot of respect, and had managed to survive under the radar of things. The question was how it was going to be done, and CAN had already started with an American actor, and though some of that material is on record, it has nice stuff, however, it really was not a free form experimentation as it was handled like a preset improvisation, designed around the actor's words and singing, which in some ways, when heard, are not designed to be thought of as "meaningful" and this is important ... but I think it lacked the freedom of FORM ... meaning ... no style, no known music, no known ideas ... and this was some of the work that the Berlin School had been trying to help folks learn and discuss, since so much of the stuff coming out of the WW2 was so nationalistic as to make one sick, of the ideas created to convince people of their righteousness and political designs. And it worked in almost all of Eastern Europe, mostly because of the strength of the Russian leaders in that area ... but in the Westernized World, it was not going to happen ... there was a lot more freedom in the arts, and its history, for example, for folks to be able to be conducted like cattle to put together a song!

Holger Czukay specified that he was immediately excited when he saw Damo Suzuki perform on the street ... there was no self conscious attitude, or attempt to ask for some money, or even a thank you ... he was busy with the microphone near him and his eyes closed, and his attention was "internal", not external ... and Holger immediately proclaimed that this was what he was looking for.

It's easy to see, NOW, how something like "TAGO MAGO" was created at this point ... a sort of attempts at finding something, out of nothing ... and Holger had specified that Tago Mago was taken from some 20 hours worth of stuff kinda put together in whatever way seemed to work better ... and from then on, came the series of concerts  that ended up in the creation of Ege Bamyasi, and then led to Future Days ... when it became evident that Damo's time with the band had come to its end ... it is thought that it was that Damo would not, do "lyrics", and I think the record company had a lot to do with that ... even though CAN was mostly self produced and invested, something almost no other band out there did, btw.

If you see the film, about Damo, and his story, and specially read the book, you will find a tremendous artist with no fear of going onto a stage with ... NOTHING. He was, basically, naked each and every time, all the way to the end, and while not as well to do financially, he was ok, and happy with every thing and his attitude, and studies were inspiring. And, when it came to the music, he really was not going to speak about it, since it was not about "ideas" or "thoughts" ... it was about improvisation, the pure kind not the idealistic concepts of it, and no form, so that the inner self could have some expression, and eventually come alive ... this was something that a lot of audiences got to see, but did not always enjoy and appreciate, since the whole thing and design was to be commercially viable so the bar, or venue, could make enough money and everyone gets paid ... but in touring in America and Europe, for some reason, his shows sold enough to be able to maintain ... and he always liked using new folks behind him, and never wanted to rehearse, or prepare ... the stage was it ... PERIOD ... and this is something that 99.9% of all musicians are afraid of ... but this one person, easily sliced through all that and more often than not put on some memorable shows, and something like we have never seen, or will ever be likely to see.

If ever there was a person that was the true inspiration of what theater, film, and the art of performing was about, there was only one that could stand up and give us a lesson, and Damo was the one, and it is sad, and a shame that he never EVER, showed up at the Acting Studio and talked about how he did what he did, which in the book and a few words, is not really defined, except that we know that it is some sort of inner stream of consciousness that he is capable of letting out, which most actors are not exactly able to do so, and at this point, you can see how some of those folks are considered "crazy", as Robin Williams was always thought of. But, it begs us to make room to what this "crazy" and "different" thing is all about ... and the only thing that can be said is ... shut up ... stop trying to define it, and just enjoy the sounds, and whatever else comes along with it is the only thing that matters, since we did not exactly go to Harlem to watch the kids drum up the whole thing by tapping on anything they could find or touch, and we still can't give it an important specification of some style or other, and its best to just not do so ...you got to let it live on its own. It is a beautiful thing and not some magic that we have to interpret and define. 

I like to say, in honor of Damo, that it is the life and art of it all like we can not imagine without our own anything that we must have in our lives to be satisfied with ourselves. With only ideas and thoughts we are just a silly empty shell of nothing!

The moment you can get around that, Damo comes alive, in your head, like it's something new, a special moment that you will always remember. 

Must see moments:
The Damo Susuki film by Michelle Heighway with Elke Morsbach's help.
Werner Herzog's film "My Friend"
Various articles I have collected since 1972
Works by Wim Wenders
Works by Peter Handke
Guy Guden and his Space Pirate Radio shows for never giving up on CAN
The Jaki Liebezeit Special Tribute ... the Damo part is incredible and tells you all you need to know.
The filmmaker Fassbinder was also using a lot of improvisation.



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Pedro Sena www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: Moshkiae
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2025 at 9:34am
Hi,

The Mosh Pit - Now and Then

(Copy from the neighboring board) (jazz would fit, although I may have to clean it up more. Jazz, in general, is not as hit oriented and hypocritical as so much rock music out there, which helped me write this.)

Music Now and Then
We're talking about 50 years or more!

Recently, upon watching some interviews with well known folks, for PA at least, they made a point that is really scary, and is something that should, somehow, be addressed, however, I'm not sure that we can agree on anything in regards to that idea, which is another problem that will endup being a personal generational thing.

At least 3 folks, have stated something that we do not take in consideration in regards to some of the comments and choices made by several members on PA's threads. The most prevalent of them is their children ... they found their kids did not care who the band was, or had much of an idea about the band ... they just wanted the song, and got another song tomorrow, and the day after another, because their friends had it.

This is going to be a serious issue for JMA, since the majority of folks that would frequent here, are likely more dedicated folks when it comes to the music they listen to!

This makes, for a lot of the "subjective" discussions here, since many of those folks would only mention their favorite songs, and some of those folks might have gotten a little better at listening to things for a band, but in general, you see a lot of discussions are about a song, not an album, in general.

This was massively different 50 years ago, and it is too easy to say that we were better versed and educated about a lot of music, than our children seem to be ... it's a hard thing to say, but one day, I intentionally played my stereo louder, to interrupt one of the kids from my sister's daughter (heck if I know what the term is!) ... and it worked. At first she said it was too loud and she couldn't hear anything on her ear buds. Ten minutes later, she goes, why you playing that so loud? Because it's pretty and better than what you are listening to. She made a face, but shut off the portable player and sat there looking silly as if paying attention to the loud music from the speakers.

Who is it and what is that?

So I told her. 

But that's so busy that we can't keep up with it.

That's a simple one, and I can play you a really busy one that will blow the ear wax off.

Nah, that's OK. Which song is that so I can hear it later?

No song. It's a full side on an LP, or about 20 minutes.

Why so long?

It varies ... do you do your reading for school? 

We rarely get reading assignments. We got one to find what Wiki said about something or other. I think it was about "bridge" in music.

How many songs you got in that thing?

About 300.

Do you listen to them all? 

Mostly, though they are on shuffle. 

Do you know the names of the bands?

What for?

...

The whole thing died down after that as it was dinner time.

This was scary and got me thinking, since the three folks that said this on various interviews were 2 very well known musicians, and one podcaster with an attitude, but he was right.

Music listening has changed in 50 years, and the majority of kids these days, don't know the bands, and don't want to know them, because the only thing they are interested in is one song, as long as their friends also have it ... and spending 99 cents, is easier on their budget, as opposed to 10 dollars, which means they could get at least 9 songs for their device!

We didn't know much about the bands in those days either, specially in America with no periodical dedicated to the music properly. One was a star kissypoo thing, and a couple of other magazines with nice pictures, were quite obviously a music company's baby and 4 of their bands were illustrated with nice pictures, even if the music was garbage, but the articles made it seem better! I guess they were wearing clothes by then, and not diapers! England had MM and it was OK in general, but it had a massive back section that listed all the concerts in the area and when and a few reviews of some shows, even though those reviews were (as Mike says) just blurbs. But you could see that there were a lot of European bands goofing around in London, and I wish I was there sometimes. What bothered me the most is that NY did not have anything like it, and it was hard to believe that NY did not show a music scene that had exciting things happening, beyond the Velvet Overrated Ground! 

Some things might have made it through and eventually we heard a bit of it, but in general, most of it was left behind, only to be found years later, by a few folks on PA ... weird that we find more of that music today, than we ever did then!

In general, for me, in 1971/1972, when I heard something on late nights, from LA mostly (we could get the 2 big FM stations and the PBS station well enough on clear nights) ... we could not look it up, but we ended up going after it, and a lot of it ended up in Space Pirate Radio from January 1974 on. By then , between Guy and I, we had already piled up a nice set of things, that could go a long way, and both or our record collections were used on the air for his main show. The regular air times for him, when they happened were more of a mix bag and also had other things, and more American stuff, which the main show would not do, though in the early days it had to, things like Paul McCartney, for example.

But now, even without a periodical we had a way to find out about the bands, and we were already familiar with a few things ... Black Sabbath being one for sure, and Uriah Heep, and a few more things. There was enough here, that we could quickly learn about them, and it really wasn't until 1974, perhaps, that we came across the Canterbury stuff, and it was mainly Robert Wyatt's 2nd album (Rock Bottom) that gave us a link to more stuff, by the number of folks that played in his album ... there wasn't a single person in there that we did not follow up on, and eventually it led to GONG and CARAVAN ... which we came across when I heard during the half time show between Man and Hawkwind (LA 1974 I think) played something I like and went to find out what it was (Caravan's C'thlu Thlu from "For Girls Who Grow Plump In The Night) ... and immediately I got the album and that was it, a couple of the previous Caravan albums right away, and the following week the next Caravan album came out with that neat cover of the tailor and his client in front of the mirror. A very neat cover by Hipgnosis, that suggested what you see is not exactly what you get ... which is very Caravan, with a slight edge.

But, at least, we finally were able to follow things up some, and learn more, though by that time we had already switched allegiances to the Europeans, as we got more and more interested in Tangerine Dream, Klaus Schulze, and so many others from Europe. I was, for example, already aware of Aphrodite's Child and Alan Stivell, as two of my sisters had spent time in Europe and they brought those albums with them. Stivell went on immediately to SPR and AC went to it when we got the 666 album. We, at that moment, were starting to have a nice view of Europe, with some Germans and other Europeans ... and in very little time during 1974 and the SPR show, Ange, Banco and Le Orme, became present and a very valuable part of all the shows.

1962 or so ...In our house we had a stereo that dad bought in Araraquara, when we lived there for 3 years (we came to America in 1965), and he listened to many of his operas and other classical music he had on LP's ... and in due time, we purchased the Rolling Stones, and Beatles and played them on that stereo, though we had to play them low so it wouldn't bother dad or mom. However, our listening and a lot of the things I had heard on the radio (the stereo unit had a radio portion as all those units did at the time), and already we knew Maria Bethania, Roberto Carlos, Antonio Carlos Jobim (Girl from Ipanema was huge hit), Stan Getz, Astrud Gilberto ... and all of them were in the airwaves, in some way or another, and though we had no recordings of any of them, we heard many of these things, and remembered them well.

When we came to America in 1965, the first thing I heard was Blonde on Blonde Bob Dylan) at the house of the gentleman in Madison WI where we stayed for a month before we got our own place.

You can see that at 15, we already knew the artists and the bands, when the case was there ... it wasn't like we didn't already know the Beatles or Rolling Stones. I spoke no English but could name all of their members!

Now, as we compare this to a lot of the folks that frequent PA, for example, the tough thing is seeing that a lot of folks don't have a reasonable historic view of the different places and time, which were very visible in our family as we went from Portugal to Brazil and then to America! And the tough side of this is seeing comments that completely take the music from 50 years ago, as if they were just another song from today, with one really bad idea ... it would not be listed on favorites because it was from many years ago, and therefore, it was assumed many times that the material wasn't any good, or important. And no one, can teach them anything about the different times and places out there, and often those folks will say something on their favorite this and that, but the comment lacks what I would call "perspective" and this is very visible in quite a few threads, and so clear on one place ... the Abbey Road vs Sgt Pepper's thread.

We can help, but PA has to add/create a better description of the times and places, so that some folks can have a chance to learn more about a lot of this history ... instead of ignoring it ... and kinda try to keep the idea of "progressive" and "progrock" alive by clothes pins outside on a wire across the yard.

There is no specific "reason" why today's young ones do not have any history in their minds, and I suppose the educational system is a serious issue around America ... and I remember one California governor cutting a lot of the PBS moneys because he thought that their work was too liberal and hurt conservative causes. This has been happening for over 50 years now, and (basically) it looks like education about the arts, is no longer useful or important in so many school systems that would rather save their moneys for their benefit, than it is to educate the students a bit better. The funding for a lot of this is simply gone, and expecting the young ones to pick it all up by themselves from their friends and the songs they like, is not a good educational choice, but no school system in America is going to do anything about it ... and this is the sad reality of a lof of the younger fans these days.

PA, if it wants to generate more time for its efforts in the Progressive and related areas, has to do more, within a somewhat more educational ability ... to help define and keep the movement alive, though if Music History is any indication most periods of music do not last 50 years, and that would suggest that our specialty has already had its best days, and would likely face a massive decline. I kinda think that we can stop this if we add some historical content, so the new music fits better and is more than just a monthly number or a minor hit in Left Balling Neptune!

I'm not sure that this will happen ... I have, for many years, always posted with a lot of details about yesterday many years ago, in my experience, and sadly, it's like no one wants to bother with it, since no one has a comment ... but one person cleared it up with me ... he said ... goodness, you just destroyed my ideas about music ... and I said ... nope ... I am adding to your study and ideas so you might have some help in figuring out why some of that stuff came alive ... things like "Foreign Son" and "Ohio" are not exactly a huge finger to the establishment, but they are a huge bunch of words about how we felt ... while today, not a lot of music is as valuable and important in terms of guidance for many of us, regardless of how we look at some things as better and more important, as they are not even a valuable listen compared to 50 years ago ... I kinda think of many of these new old things here, as just "MOS" the term that we gave the new FM stations in 1980 after the great American Radio Rape by the FCC and such. Folks are creating stories and concepts for the sake of ... something that could be entertaining and interesting for one or two of us, but in general, they are not even valuable in that area, and it's hard to not think of these things as pulp fiction in rock music, and this is something that we should not allow in "progressive" and "progrock" as so much of it going back 50 years was a revolution ... we did not like the empty messages ... we wanted some truth, and while fun listening to it, in the end, it was not about the Masked Marauders having to tell us about it at all ... we depended on many of these artists for it all ... and since the Internet days? The only thing we can depend on is, them all falling down and departing for another cosmic address ... and hope that their music can survive so we can learn something about our own history, instead of ignoring it!


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Pedro Sena www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: Moshkiae
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2025 at 12:19pm
Hi,

The Mosh Pit - Emotions ... you call that music?

Recently on watching an episode of a piece of music on Led Zeppelin, the reviewer did something that I find disappointing, specially by someone that knows classical music, however, does not seem to have the thought that a lot of the rock music came alive, not just because of the time and place, but also as a response to the fact that the majority of classical music, and operas are often the best example, lack the emotional depth that the modern stage has demanded since the 1950's. 

We grew out of the cardboard era with a pink or blue scrim in the background, and all of a sudden we have an Elvis doing what he did best, which the TV networks did not like, however, the record companies were not complaining at all ... it sold better than hotcakes! All of a sudden, out of nowhere, it seems, someone with a trumpet in his hand, was not playing the melody in a band, as was normally done, and if was what the pop music materials were all about. He became hugely famous, and even today there is material being released that showed something that the record companies way back when didn't think it would be heard, or appreciated. I don't think, or remember, a whole lot of reviewers not appreciating the work, and Miles Davis went out like a tsunami, by adding some serious attitude to the playing of an instrument. 

I can't say, honestly, that he was the first, or the last. What we know is that his ability to do whatever he felt and wanted, helped rock music ... while also bringing about jazz music to the front. Not that it was not already known as there were many other folks already doing their own thing, and they were also well received. No one thinks of Coltrane as just ... it is respected as if it were the best of classical music, even then!

The attitude thing, was interesting. It's hard to not think of Igor Stravinsky as a composer that was not happy with the conventional roles of the instrumentation on an orchestra which had controlled classical music, for several decades ... and all of a sudden ... many folks were not sure how to relate to it, but, somehow, in time, it became appreciated and thought of as magnificent, eventually.

By now, we are hitting the middle 1960's and rock music has begun to enter our lives like it never had before. Up until then, we can say, that it was almost exclusively kept by the movie studios, who were also the owners of all recording equipment in America, and likely all the radio stations, since the moment of the great radio fart in the late 1930's ... because they were all owned, let's say under one umbrella, the ability to set controls was easier and accomplished, and independent folks (for a while!!!) were not going to show up anymore, like Orson Welles had done, so well.

But one day, a few weeks after the release of the album, one of the first "stereo" albums to make a difference (there were some before, but none became huge) showed up, and while it was "fun" and "different" it managed to get by Abbey Road's really messed up ownership (the upper crust of English society!!!) and actually make some serious money, when those same folks were known to have been involved what became known as the worst business decisions of the 20th century. Over night, the quality that was designed for classical music only, was now being used for long hair folks that didn't really know music beyond a couple of chords and required some help from a man that DID know music well, by the name of George Martin.

Fast forward, and in America, a few things were brewing big time. By the time you saw the pictures and the news articles, and some incredible TV shots of the events at the Monterey Pop Festival, you know that things were changing. There is a lot of serious emotion in that bunch of work by various bands, and they are all remembered these days ... although few folks actually appreciate the music itself, though everyone will immediately tell you that the Jimi Hendrix moment is the far out part ... the emotion involved was different and about to take over in the radio dial, and make FM radio a massive friend and conductor of the new music.

Not far from all this, is something that kinda blew up how the music was seen. And it was a movie that opened up with a very bombastic moment, that we still ... look at as something that is crazy, nuts and far out all together. We would not forget that for a long time, and in many ways it became the symbol that helped a lot of rock music, explode onto our ears ... and all of a sudden it was all about the loudness and the craziness of the whole thing, be it good or bad, was not important, but the fact that so many moments came alive helped a whole generation to learn to have a voice, that (possibly) was silenced more and more from that point on, and finally lost traction in late 1970's when the rest of the  independent FM radio stations were all bought out by many corporate groups so that they would no longer play so much new music, and specially materials that were anti-establishment.

In the middle of all this, are a whole bunch of bands that ... made a name for themselves. Some became really well known, and some ... well ... not as well known, but today, they are remembered, although some folks have a tendency to look at a lot of that old stuff as a song, that does not fit in today's lists, and therefore it's not good.

One of these was Led Zeppelin. Regardless of how and why, they got to where they got in achievements musically and otherwise, there is one thing that we do not look at that they showed ... a massive show of independence and individual quality and ability ... and this is the main reason for this article.

In listening to a review, by a well known pundit that discusses a lot of rock music, while making sure to let us know that this is rock music, not serious music, even if he gives us some idea of the classical touches with some notes and chords, and special moments. But there are some things that he has an issue with, and in this particular case it was with Robert Plant's voice, which he admits to not have enjoyed for some time, but in listening to a part of the specific song, he even states ... shut up Robert I want to hear the guitar ... and now we are going to make a show about commercial music, and not an individuality that created such a monster song, with an amazing sound and quality. 

The idea was simple ... Robert had to sing just like classical music and not interrupt the guitar, or any other instrument, when in essence, in the previous 2 albums, this voice had been a very important and integral part of what the music was about ... and no one questioned, other than a few folks that thought that Led Zeppellin was not a very good band ... and today, for sure, we know those folks were wrong and badly so!

Robert Plant was not the only one that sang along side anything, be it the guitar or not, and in my book, if Jimmy Page had an issue with it, he would have changed things to make it clearer or better, but it was very clear and obvious that he had no problem with Robert staying with him, and sometimes, going over it ... it was a part of the show's evening that so many fans loved to see ... the guy was honest about it, and was so into it ... why would you want to slow it down, or curtail it? Why take one of the strongest things in any piece of the music out of it? I think the band knew that part well, and was not going to change because of one fan, or someone that did not exactly like the complete show of emotion to such a level ... it was like Jim Morrison, Janis Joplin or Jimi Hendrix ... why would you tell them to not do something, when they were so valuable and important when they kinda flew off the handle into the areas of the unknown with the concert footage. In Europe, for example, a lot of it became known as "krautrock", though it was not exactly a rock music thing, as so much of it was also being done on film and literature ... something that was visible in America, but the media always looked at the beat folks as just stonies, and not serious writers or artists ... and NY had its own "stars" and would not want to hurt their commercial appeal by appreciating someone else from the West Coast.

To me, it feels like things slowed down, after Jim, Janis and Jimi passed away ... I think that a lot of folks in the record companies were breathing a large sigh of relief because it looked like it was too much ... and it would be something that no record company would be able to control and work with properly ... and the music, we can say, for the 1970's turned "inwards" and became something else. There was emotional, but no one is going to sit here and think of the emotion given us by Jon Anderson, or the wording given us by Ian Anderson, when these things felt like ... too many words ... and in the case of the previous three, it was not too many words, it was a massive feeling that was going much further than we thought was possible, and we can say that its "end" was cruel ... and very sad. 

The music lost its touch of truth. Even though John Lennon was screaming he wanted some truth now, in the end, no one got the truth, and a lot of the music seemed ... empty and vague, and often, simply over rated just because it was loud on stage, whicih made some folks think it was important as your ears rang that loudness for 3 days!

The only sad truth of it all, is that without these emotional moments and times, the music alomst all comes off as just another commercial moment for sale out there, and when listed by numbers, it loses its quality to a system, that we fought hard to get rid of ... and we have already forgotten how much someone like Miles was important as well as many others ... and in the end, it's like ... we don't care anymore.

And that is sad ... there is nothing that we care for the most in the arts, than the emotion and its depth ... and seeing it relegated to cardboard gestures and "let's believe" kind of thing in so many films ... makes me think that sooner or later something else is going to explode, and we can only hope it's not going to be another serious war that destroys so much, to the point where we have no choice but create something new. 

I'm not sure the answer, but someone stating "shut up Robert" because he wanted to hear the guitar ... is something that really hurts, when it was the very emotion that got us tuned in to that work ... it wasn't just the music, and that voice was a part of that music ... and taking some of it out, is going to destroy a lot of the feeling in the work ... and I don't think that is right, but, if anything, for me, this is like a lack of appreciation for what rock music brought to the history of music ... which classical folks have not adapted to and still reject ... reminds me of the old ladies and their perfumes coming out of the Yehudi Menuhin and Ravi Shankar show in Chicago way back when ... "how can all that improvisation be called music!" ...

For me, that is the ugly side of folks that think they represent some classical music, and are the soldiers in an effort to keep it alive ... by killing the very things that brought rock music alive, and helped classical music lose a lot of its interest to the younger audiences. 

It's not about killing anything, or forcing someone to shut up ... it's about making use of that feeling to enhance the music, and now I think you know why so much of classical music has lost its appeal and at least one whole generation will likely never bother listening to it at all ... and is that what we want?


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Pedro Sena www.pedrosena.com



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