What music is more popular-jazz or prog?

Cannonball With Hat wrote: Sean Trane wrote: Chicapah wrote: While prog appeals to a broader age group as time moves along, jazz now encompasses all age groups so I'd have to say jazz is still more popular in general.  The shame is that not enough of the older folks (like me) are contributing their experienced opinions of the genre online so that the generations to come will know what it was like to hear a new Miles Davis or Dave Brubeck album for the very first time.   Good point, Rollie...   When reviewing an album I myself (nearing 50) try to imagine how groundbreaking it might have been back when it was first released. It's definitely not an easy task for me as it is to do so for prog (since I started listening to prog at 11 in 74), but for jazz, this is something different... since (despite being subjected at swing jazz in my childhood > thanks dad ) I only really started listening to jazz (on my own initiative) around 83, but still skimmed it somewhat back then....   The other difficult poiint to appreciate the "groundbreakingness"  of a 50's album going in the reverse direction (from the 70's to the 40's), escially coming from such a complex music style as prog... Indeed, I'm kind f at a loss to find Ornette Coleman all the hoopla about his supposedly "groudbreaking" stuff... Of course I manage it somewhat in the long run, but it might have been much easier if I'd work in jazz from the 30's until the 70's, rather than reverse..   But I'm having too much problems finding any kind of interest in be-bop or swing, finding it old-timers music to perseverate in that forward in time progression   hopefully I made sense in my ramblings           I completely understand. I do often feel underwhelmed at some of the 'great, groundbreaking' works of the greats for that very reason. Either its been done alot, or better, or whatever. Historical context is certainly important but something I take with a grain of salt nowadays.

Has to be jazz, I think.

While prog appeals to a broader age group as time moves along, jazz now encompasses all age groups so I'd have to say jazz is still more popular in general.  The shame is that not enough of the older folks (like me) are contributing their experienced opinions of the genre online so that the generations to come will know what it was like to hear a new Miles Davis or Dave Brubeck album for the very first time.

Dick Heath wrote: even my local prog specialist Ultima Thule has an ~80:20 split between  progressive/related musics and jazz related        My guess that audiences for gigs are about the same, the biggest and most popular of either genre pull in the numbers.     However, a number of  top rank American jazz acts can fill the smaller Barbican on summer tours (note I'm sticking to the London area) even at inflated prices. (Perhaps a subject for a separate thread: do American jazz artists treat the European fans as milkcows, asking for far more than they would in the USA or Canada?)

idlero wrote: Jazz is for clubs not for stadiums.

Contemporary jazz yes, but more or less classic jazz is for concert halls, square/park concerts. Better than prog anyway.

Sean Trane wrote:   2- If Miles and trane were alive today, they'd fill arenas no problem

I believe it. Especially Miles. Depending on what direction Trane would have taken, him too.

I always wondered if Trane would have went in the fusion direction had he lived into the 70s...

You see far more jazz specialist  stores/shops than prog record specialists - even my local prog specialist Ultima Thule has an ~80:20 split between  progressive/related musics and jazz related . HMV's flagship store in London's Oxford Street, has separate sections for jazz/blues and classical recordings but buries the prog amongst the pop and rock**. My guess that audiences for gigs are about the same, the biggest and most popular of either genre pull in the numbers.  I think RTF and Dream Theater have filled O2 in Greenwich, while the others have to settle for much smaller venues. However, a number of  top rank American jazz acts can fill the smaller Barbican on summer tours (note I'm sticking to the London area) even at inflated prices. (Perhaps a subject for a separate thread: do American jazz artists treat the European fans as milkcows, asking for far more than they would in the USA or Canada?)

Edited by Dick Heath - 14 Jul 2011 at 12:03pm

idlero wrote: What is obvious for others is not so obvious for me, most prog lovers I know from my friends stay away from jazz. If we take away from the equation the smooth jazz and the vocal jazz(that a lot of people non jazz listeneres have tried it at least once and would listen to Norah Jones and alikes) jazz would be still leading in numbers because it is around since so many years, but the figures will probably drop seriously What about the 70's when prog was at the peak? If I'm not mistaken, some of the best jazz artists can only dream to fill stadiums or reach the selling figures of the bestselling prog albums

 

1- Well over 80% of the progheads I know are jazzheads or JR/Fheads.... Only the more symphonic-minded (read close-minded) dislike a bit of jazz in their music....

 

2- If Miles and trane were alive today, they'd fill arenas no problem

 

3- Most people attending Genesis or Tull concerts don't assimilate the band's music to "prog" or even know of prog as a style... it's also unfair to compare the 60's scene to the 70's industry/business... the finabncial means were quite different

Edited by Sean Trane - 30 Apr 2011 at 5:44pm

idlero wrote: What is obvious for others is not so obvious for me, most prog lovers I know from my friends stay away from jazz. If we take away from the equation the smooth jazz and the vocal jazz(that a lot of people non jazz listeneres have tried it at least once and would listen to Norah Jones and alikes) jazz would be still leading in numbers because it is around since so many years, but the figures will probably drop seriously What about the 70's when prog was at the peak? If I'm not mistaken, some of the best jazz artists can only dream to fill stadiums or reach the selling figures of the bestselling prog albums

Abraxas wrote: innervisions wrote: Frankly, I am stunned by the question.  Jazz has incomparably more visibility and is a much bigger part of popular culture than prog has ever been. As is the case with classical music, even people who don't listen to jazz are at least well aware of its existence.  Your last sentence is pretty much true. However, you have to take in account that Prog Rock, first of all is a name that all not use, and second that it's a sub-genre. Say, everybody has heard of Pink Floyd, but there's people who don't know what Prog Rock is, or wouldn't name Floyd prog rock. But yes, like you said, as a genre Jazz is more known than Prog Rock.