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chuckyspell View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05 Oct 2011 at 7:33pm
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OK, using G D Em C, try this:
/G7C7/   /Eb7D7/   /B7Em7/   /A7C7/   /Eb7D7/      and repeat


Edited by js - 05 Oct 2011 at 1:20pm
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Points: 76 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chuckyspell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2011 at 12:20am
It has a smooth jazz feel to it with the major 7ths...I'm still looking forward to a Coltrane change treatment on this progression.
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Points: 35145 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2011 at 8:27pm
Here's a snappy chord progression using your triads. 
In 4 time, two beats to each chord, or two chords to a measure.
GMaj7  Am7   DMaj7  Bm7    Em7  Dm7    FMaj7  CMaj7

It sounds best if the second chord of each measure comes in on the and of 2, not the downbeat.


Edited by js - 26 Sep 2011 at 8:28pm
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I wanted to break it down to only one chord between chords. This is what I played today.
 
G           D        Em         C
G   C#7  D Bm Em C#7  C  F#m
 
Any comments?


Edited by chuckyspell - 25 Sep 2011 at 10:34pm
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Points: 35145 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 12:52pm
The top one is really good, I might have to look at the second one more.
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A typical example of what I would do would be
 
G                       D            Em                          C
GM7 CM7 Am7 D7 GM7 Em7 Am7 D7 GM7 C Am7 D7
 
 OR
 
G                        D             Em                           C
GM7 Em7 A7#9 D7 G7#5 Em7 A7#9 F#m7b5 C A7#5 D7 G


Edited by chuckyspell - 14 Sep 2011 at 5:28pm
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With the original chords being G D Em C, how would you do it?
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Points: 35145 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2011 at 6:26am
OK, the destination chords are still Dm Bb F C

    i:/Dm G7/   /Bb7/   /D7/   /A7 C7/   /FMaj7/   /C7/:i
It makes a loop.


Edited by js - 14 Sep 2011 at 6:28am
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Sorry about the neighbours! My headphones usually come in handy at high volume for those situations!
 
Coltrane Changes are the ii-V-I substitution as follows
 
ii7            |            |   V7  | I   ||
dm7 Eb7 | Ab B7 | E G7 | C   ||
   
   m2     P4  m3  P4 m3  P4

So I'm guessing we would have to ii-V-I substitute the original chords first.
The original chords are I-V-vim-IV.
 
So how would you go about it?


Edited by chuckyspell - 13 Sep 2011 at 9:08pm
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I'm not sure what you mean by Coltrane changes. The infamous Giant Steps is mostly a series of ii V I progressions, if I remember correctly.
In later years he would just toss the chord changes and play the tune over a modal vamp.
Here's a nice Coltrane modal vamp to try:
The left hand vamps d g c and then e a d while the right improvises on the d dorian scale. (defgabc)

My upstairs neighbor is playing "The Pina Colada Song" at high volume while I type this LOL


Edited by js - 13 Sep 2011 at 6:43pm
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Thanks so far.
 
How would you apply Coltane changes to the progressions I've cited.
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Lets do the contemporary jazz sound again while keeping the same bass line:

Em7/D     AbMaj7/Bb         Gm7/F         Dm7/C

which is:  Dm13     Bb13      F13      C13   but it has to be voiced the way it is up there or it won't sound right.
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Originally posted by js js wrote:

We probably need a new chord progression, I think we wore that one out. 
I'm not good for much tonight, but I'll check it tomorrow.
OK here's another
 
vim IV I V
Dm Bb F C
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OK.
If God permits, soon I'll try these out in a rehearsal setting. I won't be playing unaccompanied but with two other guitar players and a keysman all playing the good old I-V-vim-IV...should be interesting as I'll take out all the roots, thirds and fifths and just play the colors.
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We probably need a new chord progression, I think we wore that one out. 
I'm not good for much tonight, but I'll check it tomorrow.
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Keep going guys, please!
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Originally posted by js js wrote:

This one is dissonant, but still in your original functional harmony:

C in the bass with E Bb Eb voiced in the right hand
G in the bass, slide that right hand up a half step to F B E
A in the bass with G C# F# in the right hand
F in the bass, slide the previous notes up a half step to G# D G

 You have to voice it the above way to sound cool, but what you have is: C7 #9     G13    A13    Fm13


Tastey man, you sound like you know your stuff!

Other nice voicings for dominant chords that I find quite sexy, in the context of C7:

C in the bass - Bb Half Diminished shape in the right hand
                            E7b5 in the right hand
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Originally posted by chuckyspell chuckyspell wrote:

Originally posted by Jazz Pianist Jazz Pianist wrote:


You mean vi (or vim)?

None of this really works man, I can tell by looking at it (with the greatest of respect to you)

- First chord is along the right lines of tertiary substitution (substitution by thirds), however there is one note that clouds its identity as a diatonically functioning chord, and that's the B natural, the 5th of E7. Because C is the route of your chord, for it to sound nice you need to treat it like a C7 chord, using notes from E7 to spice it up. As mentioned above, the only issue is the B natural, and to make the chord function as a nice dominant, just flatten it. Your new chord would be E7(b5)/C, or otherwise known as a C9(#5).

-The next chord would work fine for an unresolved effect, however personally I'd keep the F in the bass and make it a minor 9, just a suggestion.

- I don't really understand the context of this chord (f#dim) unless you are modulating to Gm, which you don't in the next chord. Maybe think this over a little bit more? Diminished chords have a very special place and mostly function as a hollow type dominant as a substitute for chord V, e.g. you're F# diminished would work nicely as a substitute for D7 in G minor, so long as it wasn't an final cadence. You can't really dot them around anywhere in diatonic harmony...

- Unless you are purposely trying to create something that sounds horrific (horror movie composers use this bad boy all the time), then this chord has pretty much no function, because the parent chord and the root note are a tritone apart. Minor chords don't have a tritone relationship like dominant 7th chords do!

Your initial chord sequence is ok, however it doesn't really serve itself to substitutions as it kind of ignores pythagoras's pendulum model. I'd suggest changing the order around so that the G is at the end of the sequence.

As for effective substitutions in western harmony, I'll be posting an article of mine on them in the next few days, referring to all the most commonly used substitutions (including tritone and tertiary) plus some harmony basics, so I'll link you here. Also feel free to inbox me
 
So for a I - V - vim - IV chord progression what would you play?


Personally, I'd swap the vi and the I around and make chords I and V dominant sevenths. In C:

Am9 - Db7/G - C+7/Gb - F13


Edited by Jazz Pianist - 29 Jul 2011 at 11:29am
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Points: 35145 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2011 at 8:41am
Either its a 4th with a tritone on top, or a tritone with a 4th on top, both are good. Sometimes you just stack perfect 4ths to get minor 11th chords such as in Herbie's "Maiden Voyage"

Getting back to the tritone and 4th stack:
Those notes then usually provide a third, a seventh and an altered tone for a chord, for instance E  Bb and Eb provide the third, seventh and plus 9 of a C7b9 chord.
F B E provide the 7th, third and 13th of a G13 and so on.
They don't always provide those exact three intervals, but that is common.


Edited by js - 29 Jul 2011 at 8:42am
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