Chord Progressi&#111;n Suggesti&#111;ns

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Posted: 28 Jul 2011 at 11:53pm

js wrote:

This one is dissonant, but still in your original functional harmony:

C in the bass with E Bb Eb voiced in the right hand

G in the bass, slide that right hand up a half step to F B E

A in the bass with G C# F# in the right hand

F in the bass, slide the previous notes up a half step to G# D G

You have to voice it the above way to sound cool, but what you have is: C7 #9 G13 A13 Fm9 add6

Thank you!

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Posted: 29 Jul 2011 at 12:00am

A three note stack consisting of a tritone and a 4th, or vice versa is the sound of modern jazz starting with Monk and then Tyner, Evans, Herbie etc.

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Posted: 29 Jul 2011 at 12:08am

Looking back at your example I see that's what you're doing.

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Posted: 29 Jul 2011 at 12:16am

Monk probably wasn't the first, I'm sure Art Tatum, Ellington and Bud Powell used these too.

What instrument do you play?

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Posted: 29 Jul 2011 at 12:26am

I play guitar but I admire piano/keyboard players like Art Tatum, Chick Corea, Herbie Hancock, Hiromi Uehara, Jan Hammer, McCoy Tyner and Thelonious Monk. And I'm always trying to work on my harmonic sensibilities.

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Posted: 29 Jul 2011 at 12:33am

Since you play guitar you might enjoy trying McLaughlin's "Dance of the Maya", its a blues progression, but voiced so it sounds abstract, great piece to play on the guitar. I have a book that has that in it. Its not real hard, but not super easy either.

I mostly play RnB and RnB/jazz keyboards, but I play some guitar too.

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Posted: 29 Jul 2011 at 1:12am

I've listened to Dance of the Maya many times over the years

I have the MIDI

What makes the intro all the more different is its time signature.

E7#9-A7-F#M7b5-G7-Dm then repeating substituting the Dm with a tritone G#M7b5

then everything is carried up a 4th

then it's closed off with C#m9/Eb-CmM7b5-C#7b9-A/Bb-B7b9

Edited by chuckyspell - 29 Jul 2011 at 1:13am

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Posted: 29 Jul 2011 at 8:04am

js wrote:

A three note stack consisting of a tritone and a 4th, or vice versa is the sound of modern jazz starting with Monk and then Tyner, Evans, Herbie etc.

So what would the chords look with the intervals inverted in the stack?

Boy I think I really need Jazz Pianist's article on functional harmony!

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Posted: 29 Jul 2011 at 8:41am

Either its a 4th with a tritone on top, or a tritone with a 4th on top, both are good. Sometimes you just stack perfect 4ths to get minor 11th chords such as in Herbie's "Maiden Voyage"

Getting back to the tritone and 4th stack:

Those notes then usually provide a third, a seventh and an altered tone for a chord, for instance E Bb and Eb provide the third, seventh and plus 9 of a C7b9 chord.

F B E provide the 7th, third and 13th of a G13 and so on.

They don't always provide those exact three intervals, but that is common.

Edited by js - 29 Jul 2011 at 8:42am

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Posted: 29 Jul 2011 at 11:28am

chuckyspell wrote:

Jazz Pianist wrote:

You mean vi (or vim)?

None of this really works man, I can tell by looking at it (with the greatest of respect to you)

- First chord is along the right lines of tertiary substitution (substitution by thirds), however there is one note that clouds its identity as a diatonically functioning chord, and that's the B natural, the 5th of E7. Because C is the route of your chord, for it to sound nice you need to treat it like a C7 chord, using notes from E7 to spice it up. As mentioned above, the only issue is the B natural, and to make the chord function as a nice dominant, just flatten it. Your new chord would be E7(b5)/C, or otherwise known as a C9(#5).

-The next chord would work fine for an unresolved effect, however personally I'd keep the F in the bass and make it a minor 9, just a suggestion.

- I don't really understand the context of this chord (f#dim) unless you are modulating to Gm, which you don't in the next chord. Maybe think this over a little bit more? Diminished chords have a very special place and mostly function as a hollow type dominant as a substitute for chord V, e.g. you're F# diminished would work nicely as a substitute for D7 in G minor, so long as it wasn't an final cadence. You can't really dot them around anywhere in diatonic harmony...

- Unless you are purposely trying to create something that sounds horrific (horror movie composers use this bad boy all the time), then this chord has pretty much no function, because the parent chord and the root note are a tritone apart. Minor chords don't have a tritone relationship like dominant 7th chords do!

Your initial chord sequence is ok, however it doesn't really serve itself to substitutions as it kind of ignores pythagoras's pendulum model. I'd suggest changing the order around so that the G is at the end of the sequence.

As for effective substitutions in western harmony, I'll be posting an article of mine on them in the next few days, referring to all the most commonly used substitutions (including tritone and tertiary) plus some harmony basics, so I'll link you here. Also feel free to inbox me

So for a I - V - vim - IV chord progression what would you play?

Personally, I'd swap the vi and the I around and make chords I and V dominant sevenths. In C:

Am9 - Db7/G - C+7/Gb - F13

Edited by Jazz Pianist - 29 Jul 2011 at 11:29am

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Posted: 29 Jul 2011 at 11:44am

js wrote:

This one is dissonant, but still in your original functional harmony:

C in the bass with E Bb Eb voiced in the right hand

G in the bass, slide that right hand up a half step to F B E

A in the bass with G C# F# in the right hand

F in the bass, slide the previous notes up a half step to G# D G

You have to voice it the above way to sound cool, but what you have is: C7 #9 G13 A13 Fm13

Tastey man, you sound like you know your stuff!

Other nice voicings for dominant chords that I find quite sexy, in the context of C7:

C in the bass - Bb Half Diminished shape in the right hand
E7b5 in the right hand

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Posted: 30 Jul 2011 at 5:55pm

Keep going guys, please!

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Posted: 30 Jul 2011 at 6:02pm

We probably need a new chord progression, I think we wore that one out.

I'm not good for much tonight, but I'll check it tomorrow.

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Posted: 30 Jul 2011 at 6:29pm

OK.

If God permits, soon I'll try these out in a rehearsal setting. I won't be playing unaccompanied but with two other guitar players and a keysman all playing the good old I-V-vim-IV...should be interesting as I'll take out all the roots, thirds and fifths and just play the colors.

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Posted: 31 Jul 2011 at 10:35am

js wrote:

We probably need a new chord progression, I think we wore that one out.

I'm not good for much tonight, but I'll check it tomorrow.

OK here's another

vim IV I V

Dm Bb F C

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Posted: 31 Jul 2011 at 12:14pm

Lets do the contemporary jazz sound again while keeping the same bass line:

Em7/D AbMaj7/Bb Gm7/F Dm7/C

which is: Dm13 Bb13 F13 C13 but it has to be voiced the way it is up there or it won't sound right.

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Posted: 13 Sep 2011 at 1:13pm

Thanks so far.

How would you apply Coltane changes to the progressions I've cited.

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Posted: 13 Sep 2011 at 6:42pm

I'm not sure what you mean by Coltrane changes. The infamous Giant Steps is mostly a series of ii V I progressions, if I remember correctly.

In later years he would just toss the chord changes and play the tune over a modal vamp.

Here's a nice Coltrane modal vamp to try:

The left hand vamps d g c and then e a d while the right improvises on the d dorian scale. (defgabc)

My upstairs neighbor is playing "The Pina Colada Song" at high volume while I type this LOL

Edited by js - 13 Sep 2011 at 6:43pm

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Posted: 13 Sep 2011 at 9:05pm

Sorry about the neighbours! My headphones usually come in handy at high volume for those situations!

Coltrane Changes are the ii-V-I substitution as follows

ii7           |           |   V7 | I   ||
dm7 Eb7 | Ab B7 | E G7 | C   ||

   m2    P4 m3 P4 m3 P4

So I'm guessing we would have to ii-V-I substitute the original chords first.

The original chords are I-V-vim-IV.

So how would you go about it?

Edited by chuckyspell - 13 Sep 2011 at 9:08pm

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